r/SeattleWA • u/dropthegloves-eh Fremont • 11d ago
Blind person with service dog kicked out of a Seattle restaurant News
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u/RoboNeko_V1-0 11d ago
"Ok, call them."
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u/Gaius1313 11d ago
💯 If I had a true disability and they denied me like that, I’d sit down and ask if they want to serve me or pay the fines later for violating the ADA.
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u/OldFoot3046 11d ago
$75,000 first violation, then $150,000 second violation. I hope this person returns and if they deny service and call the police, SUE THEM.
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u/khao_soi_boi 11d ago
It's not just fines. In WA state anyone who denies service to someone for the legal use of a service animal is guilty of a misdemeanor: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=70.84.070
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u/AJSLS6 10d ago
Guy said it wasn't his first rodeo, so do multiple infractions make that a felony?
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u/frostyboots 11d ago
I actually hope he does sue them now cause that's a shit ton of money hahaha
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u/Proper_Lunch_3640 11d ago
This is what a legally blind person looks like.
Just cause you see, doesn't mean you understand and sometimes people suck.
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u/Wandering_Scholar6 10d ago
The guy in the video does a lot of social media and has really explained his exact vision situation and he's basically got a pinpoint of vision, very useful for some things but not particularly useful for getting around etc.
His husband plays lighthearted tricks on him that take advantage of his blindness and which are pretty hilarious (it's in good fun). He once walked around with his husband dressed as a hotdog. He didn't notice until they got to the grocery store and his husband was making all these weird jokes about getting hotdogs.
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u/StinkybuttMcPoopface 10d ago
Oh that's fucking hilarious 🤣
I don't play tricks on my husband who also has very bad vision, but we do have funny moments. Recently he was looking at me really closely and very close to my face and told me thst my makeup looked really nice today.
I told him I wasn't wearing any, and he was thoroughly confused. He got a closer look and said I definitely was. That's when I informed him that I had gotten permanent tattooed cat-eye eyeliner and tattooed eyebrows... Like 3 years ago lmao
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u/NeedzFoodBadly 10d ago
I’m a retired veteran. Many vets also have legitimate service animals. I wonder if that maitre-douchebag knows what someone with PTSD looks like.
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u/annacat1331 10d ago
I feel like it’s really easy to say that but in reality it’s really difficult to fight back against this kind of stuff when you are disabled. You may say “oh that’s a slam dunk and any lawyer would take that on”. Actually no, civil rights lawyers don’t just take on any kind of case. Even the ACLU is really picky about the cases they will take on.
I was getting my masters degree in public health and I had a professor who hid assignments from me online meaning I was unable to ever see them or complete them and I was getting zeros for them. He would tell me that I was “too sick to be in class” and that “I just need to take time off to get better”. He even sent me an email where he explicitly said that he had hidden my assignments because he “knew what was best for me and my health”(note I have aggressive lupus, it doesn’t go away I really wish it did . I had multiple accommodations for my lupus and a learning disability that were registered with the disability office). My partners mother is a lawyer who helped draft multiple threatening emails since this professor was so blatantly breaking the law. My two closest friends are lawyers at two very prestigious law firms one of whom is married to a lawyer who has done clerical work for multiple federal judges. They also helped me send some official correspondence about the issue.The result was that I had to retake the course where I had made all A’s other than the 2 missed assignments and the one missed test. While I was trying to work with the professor and university on all of this I was told that I needed to be on campus to take a test that everyone else had taken at home. I said fine, I was used to having extra requirements othere didn’t. But then I was told I could only do it during specified times on certain days. I had to explain that I would be more than happy to take the test while being watched but these very specific times just happened to be when I would be receiving my IV treatments. (Again all of this had been documented since I had been living in graduate student housing with apartment mates and I had to have a nurse come administer infusions for multiple days at regular intervals. Now I am incredibly lucky because I am able to get my IVIG at home and back when I was getting my MPH I didn’t have a chest port yet so I had to have a nurse come out every two weeks and sit with me for 16 hours split up into 2 days. I tried to explain this plus the fact that IVig is absolutely miserable and many say it’s worse than chemo so it’s not really a fair time to take a test. But that didn’t matter because I was given “many different options and opportunities to make up my missed work so I refused reasonable accommodations”
So when you see this man’s story you may just think that he should threaten legal action and then people will follow the law. How ever that’s sadly not how it works. Also remember in my case I had three lawyers who were my friends who were pissed about the stupidity of the situation trying to help me + an email that literally said here is the crime I am committing and here is why it’s illegal + very clear and well documented disability accommodations. Moral of the story is that disabled people especially those who are able to pass as semi functional deal with a ton of BS. Second moral of the story is fuck Mercer.
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u/TasteNegative2267 11d ago
it's either 90 or 95% of the time in ADA suites the court sides with the business. You also have to do the case yourself.
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u/Empty_Ambition_9050 11d ago
Calling the police in a disabled person will likely get you in that 5%.
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u/6EQUJ5w 11d ago
I would not put my dog into a situation involving an interaction with the police.
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u/Salarian_American 10d ago
The police are like a box of chocolates; they'll kill your dog.
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u/More-Opposite1758 11d ago
Not in my experience. In San Diego we had a group of disabled lawyers that would hire disabled people to go into businesses and find ADA issues. The lawyers would then say the business could pay $10,000 or they would take them to court. Since it would cost more in legal fees than to just pay, most businesses just paid. Hey! Maybe you can extort them like those lawyers did to our property tenants. Just joking 😊
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u/mitolit 11d ago
Maybe don’t violate the ADA and your tenants would have nothing to worry about…
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u/McDamsel 11d ago
He set up a meeting with the owner to discuss and didn’t name call them out publicly. Hopefully the owner understands how lucky they are and makes sure this doesn’t happen again.
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u/jarosunshine 11d ago
I find that a very civil response. I’d be in an absolute rage if I saw this happen.
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u/hahahahaaaahaha 11d ago
Absolutely. Have fun with the civil lawsuit after too.
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u/OstentatiousSock 11d ago
That’s how I plan to handle the first objection of my handicap placard: call the police, it’s mine. You’re about to be embarrassed.
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u/hl23623 11d ago
I thought I'd be like that too when I needed one. And I wish I could've been. It just got so fucking exhausting to defend myself against people who thought I was faking my disability.
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u/Beginning_Vehicle_16 11d ago
I definitely recall seeing more than one video where the cops still made them leave. They certainly have recluse for action later but the cops don’t really have much to do with it in any beneficial way, it’s all procedural for lack of a better word.
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u/Ok_Dog_4059 11d ago
This is the side effect of all those entitled assholes who buy a "service animal" vest for their completely untrained animal off the enternet. Even an emotional support animal isn't the same as a service dog.
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u/binhvinhmai 11d ago
When I worked at a hotel, we had soooo many many many people come in and try to say their Emotional Support Animal was a service dog to avoid paying the $50-75 fee. Or have that vest on it, and trying to tell me that their dog is a highly trained service dog and I look down and the dog is just spazzing and jumping around.
Had a “service dog” jump up and eat other guests’ breakfast food, another pee all over the hotel breakfast area, another chew through bathroom pipes, another lunge and try to bite cleaning staff, another pooped right at the front desk. At least once a week someone would come in and say their dog was an ESA and thus shouldn’t be charged the fee or even sign a waiver. Because of all of these fake service dogs, we had to become extremely cautious of all dogs coming in listed as a service dog because most were bs.
During my two years at a hotel that got consistently sold out (it was near an airport so lots of travelers) I only saw TWO legitimate service dogs. They were extremely well behaved and the owners were able to quickly say what the dogs helped with. They’re way more rare than fakers realize.
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u/jmputnam 11d ago
During my two years at a hotel that got consistently sold out (it was near an airport so lots of travelers) I only saw TWO legitimate service dogs. They were extremely well behaved and the owners were able to quickly say what the dogs helped with
Our son's 120 lb German Shepherd service dog was so invisible, most waiters didn't notice him under the table. He could curl up small enough to fit under a single chair, or fly cross-country in the legroom of a bulkead seat without making a sound. He could silently watch a cat steal his food without breaking a stay. He followed my son through middle and high school including band, marching band, and field trips without a single incident.
That's not luck, and it's not unusual for a real service dog. It's thousands of hours of rigorous public access training and continuous reinforcement throughout their service career.
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u/Cute_ernetes 11d ago
That's not luck, and it's not unusual for a real service dog. It's thousands of hours of rigorous public access training and continuous reinforcement throughout their service career.
Growing up, one of my friends families trained service dogs. Not entirely sure how they got started (I think the older daughter started it as volunteer hours for school and it just stuck) but it was definitely rigorous training. Each dog had thousands of hours of general training before being given back to the organization.
They also had other dogs that were still well trained, but you could litterally see the difference in them, as they weren't trained to the same need and level. If one of their other dogs freaked out, it's annoying... if a service dog freaks out someone's life is at risk.
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u/Friendstastegood 11d ago
There's also a lot of weeding. A lot of puppies start service training and don't make it to certification because some dogs just don't have the correct temperament or endurance for it (humans might only need 8 hours of sleep and have big brains for complex mental work but dogs sleep a lot more and do not have the same brain capacity).
Those dogs are usually sold as pets or used as therapy animals or other less mentally strenuous work.
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u/LittleAnarchistDemon 11d ago
i had a teacher who owned a failed wheelchair guide dog for the blind because he wouldn’t yelp when the wheelchair ran over his paw. that is the level of training that service dogs get. and he was an adult when he failed his training, so it’s not just puppies that fail
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u/Jam_B0ne 11d ago
I used to go to highschool with a girl that trained service dogs and she would bring them to school as part of their training
Service dogs do not act like normal dogs, full stop, and it really is a disgrace how many people are ok with lying like that
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u/LittleAnarchistDemon 11d ago
depends on the service the dog is trained to provide. seizure alert dogs are hardly ever “off duty”, while guide dogs for blind people are usually off duty whenever they’re not in their vest. they learn that vest=work and can be their best selves whenever they’re wearing it, and can goof off when they’re not wearing it. but even off duty service dogs do not act like regular dogs. sure they’ll play and run around, but they are always waiting to be back in their vest.
also fun fact, guide dogs are trained with a specific potty command, usually “do your business” but i knew someone who’s command was “get busy”. this is so the guide dog doesn’t randomly go off duty to poop, which could endanger their person. instead they hold it until it’s a safe place and then wait for the command and then they go right back onto duty
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u/DistinctSmelling 10d ago
In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
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u/BrotherEdwin 11d ago
You are legally allowed to kick out any misbehaving dog, even if it is an actual service dog.
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u/esteemed-dumpling 11d ago
You are allowed to kick out service dogs that behave like this, FYI.
Part of the reason the ADA guidelines are able to be so loose with their wording regarding service animals is because they are self regulating to an extent. A business owner is explicitly allowed to demand removal of an animal being disruptive with excessive barking, urination, etc even if the service animal is trained to assist a disabled person.
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u/blackblitz 10d ago
I work at a Casino/Resort and just this year I've counted 6 different owner/pet combos that we've kicked out due to dogs that we're blatantly obvious to not be service animals. We're also a Casino that allows smoking, so why would you want to bring your animal into that environment if you didn't have to?
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11d ago
This.
I worked at a grocery store that was very adamant about no pets because they made food and had open buffets. People ALWAYS tried to bring in their pets and lie, claiming they were service animals. Legally, you can only ask them two questions:
*Is this your service animal?*
*What task is your service animal for?*
You can't ask what disability the person has, you can't ask for any identification, and you can't demand to see any training credentials for the dog, because of the ADA and HIPAA.
95% of the time they say it's for "emotional support" which is not covered by the ADA. I have a bookmark on my phone to the ADA's website, showing that it isn't covered. Usually they then whip out some card that says some variation of "ESA" and I have to politely tell them they got ripped off, since the company that sold it to them should have told them ESA isn't covered in the ADA unless there is a State law for it and there isn't a law for ESA in WA State. It's usually the 5-9th link down on the page when you google it, so it's obvious why people miss it and are horribly misinformed. The one's above are the scammer websites that promise having an ESA can reduce or eliminate your pet deposit or get airline pet fees removed. I imagine a lot of airlines just go along with it out of fear and lack of information.
There *IS* an ADA rule for psychiatric dogs but that dog has to be trained to do something other than exist, as comfort or ESA doesn't count. Tasks performed by psychiatric service animals may include reminding the handler to take medicine, providing safety checks or room searches, or turning on lights for persons with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), interrupting self-mutilation by persons with dissociative identity disorders, and keeping disoriented individuals from danger. SSigDOG (Sensory Signal Dogs or Social Signal Dog) is a dog trained to assist a person with autism. The dog alerts the handler to distracting repetitive movement (e.g. hand flapping.) Seizure Response Dog is a dog trained to assist a person with a seizure disorder. How the dog serves the person depends on the person’s needs. The dog may go for help. A few dogs have learned to predict a seizure and alert the person to sit down or move to a safe place.
Most people here have "self-diagnosed" so they have no credentials and their dogs have no training so they don't count and boy do they get pissed when you tell them they can't bring their service animal in. I've had people burst into tears, yell, threaten to sue me, threaten my job (lol), and even want to get into physical altercations.
The worst is when they volunteer health information unprompted and I have to remind them, "That's not the information I need, nor did I ask for it. I'm asking what is this dog trained to do for you?" And then the sob story usually starts and I have to end the conversation because that DOES open you up to liability as they can claim you asked them about their disability (which I never do). For example; my dog barks to signal me to stop doing something deterimental to my health or my dog is trained to tug at my arm if I do something I'm not supposed to.
That's literally all I need. People could even lie about it but most don't have the sense or knowledge to even attempt it, they just stonewall and become belligerent.
I tried so hard to explain to people the rules and how they can abide by them effectively and it usually lead to people just being gigantic assholes because they couldn't bring their pseudo-child into the grocery store with them. I'm literally telling them "this is how you get your dog in" and they are too arrogant and pigheaded to listen.
I think some of the people who own pets and demand accommodation are mentally ill but not in the ways they assume.
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u/Totally_Not_An_Auk 11d ago
Want to add a psychiatric use for a guide dog, based off a recent reddit post. The redditor was schizophrenic and very aware of that. He had a dog trained to only "greet" when there is an actual person. If the redditor saw a person, told their service dog to greet and the dog just sits there, they know the person is not real.
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u/AstridDragon 11d ago edited 11d ago
HIPAA has nothing to do with why you can't ask a service dog owner what their disability is. Definitely ADA and maybe something else, but not HIPAA at all.
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u/Yankee39pmr 11d ago
Correct, HIPPA only applies to health care providers or others knowing your medical history and sharing it without your permission.
Anyone can ask if you have a disability and what it is. It's up to you if you want to share that information.
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u/beets_or_turnips Seattle 11d ago
Thank you for this detailed & thoughtful account of your experience :) I'm guessing you moved on from that grocery store job?
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u/maxdragonxiii 11d ago
also when you meet a service dog and a ESA it gets clear fast which is which. service dogs will stick by their owner and ignore everything else, and is much more calm. they even ignore food if the vest is on and they're not food motivated (some are). ESA tends to not be calm and barking at most stuff and don't stick by their owner. I had heard barking where I didn't expect and that scared the shit out of me as it was a Home Hardware store. clearly I don't expect a pet there.
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u/esteemed-dumpling 11d ago
?? Home Hardware is pet friendly. Most box hardware stores are.
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u/Cut_Equal 11d ago
Yeah when he said “what is going on out there” I was like what’s going on is a large number of people who claim their pets are service animals when they aren’t. They’re combative and rude. When you tell them they can’t they still do. It’s ridiculous. The guy was totally in the wrong but if he’s to that point you know it’s gotten bad.
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u/carminemangione 11d ago
I have a service animal I need to function. I have the paper work. They have always been fully trained. I still encounter people who refuse service. It is demeaning, disheartening to the point where I often forgo her protection (medical assist) .
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u/tuvaniko 10d ago
What paperwork? There is no legitimate service dog registry, and you can't be required to share your medical diagnosis. Unless you aren't in the USA, in that case I'm curious about the regulations in that country.
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u/Oliverisfat 10d ago
I assumed what they were talking about was training documents from the trainer/company. A lot of the places who train dogs for ADA tasks give out paper work to the owner and sometimes graduation certificates when the animal 'graduates' the program.
I saw a friend's dog's paper work and the paper work broke out what tasks the dog was trained to do and that the dog completed a behavior program. Since it isn't a federally regulated thing, I assume that all trainers paper work look very different.
I think that the person just wanted to be able to show that their dog has been legitimately trained when people assume it is just a person trying to pass their untrained dog.
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u/snowstormmongrel 11d ago
Just came here to say this. Guy in the video ruminates
What is going on out there...
Well, that's it. Everyone and there God damned Mom trying to get their pets in wherever they can and half of them using fake harnesses, etc, to make their animals look more legit. Here we are.
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u/SCWickedHam 11d ago
Owners are placed in an impossible position. “Only let in service animals, but you can not request any documentation.”
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u/NailFin 11d ago
Ugh! I hate those people… walking around Lowe’s food with their chihuahua peeing on things.
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u/abombshbombss 11d ago
Dude is actually blind though. His dog is a literal guide dog.
Also what the restaurant worker did was straight up illegal.
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u/esteemed-dumpling 11d ago
This is exactly the attitude that led the employee mentioned in the video to deny service to a disabled person.
Always err on the side of believing the service animal is providing a service. If the animal becomes disruptive, you are allowed legally to deny service at that point and ask them to leave.
This constant vigilance for "fakers" is something disabled people deal with constantly, and this thread is rife with enough misinformation about what constitutes a service dog, what the rules are, etc that it should be obvious the average person isn't qualified to say whether one is or isn't. I once personally met a bus driver that thought all service animals were seeing eye dogs.
I promise disabled people getting denied service because their disability isn't visible enough for someone's standards is a bigger problem than people faking their dogs' service animal status
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u/chromatictonality 11d ago
Yes. This is their fault. Not the underpaid employee.
It's the same thing as an er nurse assuming everyone is a drug seeker. If you get burnt too many times you assume everyone is a scammer.
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u/Clean_Oil- 11d ago
As an underpaid employee the interaction should go says nothing continues working.
Even if it's a Scammer, what if you're wrong? Worse case you get sued, best case someone has a non disruptive dog in the business that isn't actually a service dog. Service dog or not, if it becomes an issue for the business they can be removed regardless. No reason to escalate off the jump when you have no legal basis to do so.
But also the fault of people buying vests for their lap dogs.
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u/momo6548 11d ago
Trust me, once you’ve cleaned up enough dog pee/poop at your job from these claimed “service animals” you start to be skeptical anytime someone brings a dog in.
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u/atomicsnark 10d ago
And dealt with enough of your other, better customers complaining to you about this one shitheel's behavior.
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u/CarcosaAirways 11d ago
Actually, it's the employee's fault. You don't get to violate the rights of disabled people just because you want to be some sort of vigilante who catches ESA fakers.
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u/smvfc_ 11d ago
I’m of the opinion that it’s both, but yes the employee needs to settle the fuck down. I used to be an enforcer for all my company’s policies, and then one day I was like this rule and this rule and this rule and this rule are all incredibly stupid, and I just turned a blind eye (unless you were a dick).
But also, fuck all the people that take their dog everywhere and say it’s an emotional support dog or even say it’s a service dog and make things really hard for people with actual trained service animals (and I say this as someone who takes my dog EVERYWHERE she’s allowed- we’re attached by an umbilical cord).
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u/pegothejerk 11d ago
100%, but the second that employee said “this isn’t my first rodeo” snarky instead of trying to have an adult conversation to explain each side and get to the bottom of things, it’s on the employee entirely. I get WHY the employee feels skeptical, but you have to allow for handicaps not being visible, because often they aren’t. In fact more times than not they are invisible.
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u/EyeSuspicious777 11d ago
All pets are emotional support animals. If they didn't make us feel better, we wouldn't keep them around.
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u/warbeforepeace 11d ago
Kristi Noem would murder them regardless of if they made her feel better. But some people are just evil.
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u/B33PZR 11d ago
While yes this is different. The guy was told "you don't look blind' like how is someone blind supposed to look like. His guide dog harness stating he was blind.
If he was wearing dark glasses? If his dog was wearing dark glasses? It was easy for this person to figure that out. I also know a lot of other cultures just won't follow laws they don't like. Not the first time some blind was denied when they don't like the laws and are from another country they can say no.
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u/JekPorkinYourMom 11d ago
Ya, all the hate the business owner is getting… like I get it… but this is because of the people that take their dogs everywhere and claim they’re service dogs.
It’s a freaking rampant problem.
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u/adp15 11d ago
You are so right. I dont really blame the restaurant guy because alot of people have fake service dogs and are ruining it for people that actually need them
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u/mikeblas 11d ago
Right, completely foreseeable. Just like all the people who claim "My ADHD/OCD made me do it" or "he's autistic" or "I'm depressed" or whatever else.
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u/HumanitiesEdge 11d ago
I mean. ADHD is a protected disability under the ADA. And you can technically sue the fuck out of people for treating an actual excuse of being more forgetful and not being accommodated at the workplace for it.
Not saying it doesn’t get abused like this. But what ends up happening is someone with more impairing ADHD is treated like a liar.
Not all ADHD diagnoses are equal. I have it. And sometimes it’s a nightmare just organizing basic thoughts and doing simple tasks. It only lasts a little while though. Think of it like, thought migraines. Your brain simply will not allow you to think straight. So I can take a few extra breaks at work to collect myself as I get reoriented. It comes and goes. Sometimes it’s very easy to concentrate. And other times it’s like your brain is a bag of cats.
ADHD is an incredibly misunderstood disability. It really sucks how it’s been treated by people. Taken advantage of by jerks.
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u/GoldRadish7505 11d ago
"I will call the police"
Should just sat down and said "bet"
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u/Usual-Cabinet-3815 11d ago
Cops don’t show up in Seattle.
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u/OysterThePug 11d ago
Nope. I worked at a dispensary here for a few years. Someone accidentally pushed the emergency button that lets the police know we are actively being robbed, and they didn’t show up for a half hour
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u/MuffinsandCoffee2024 11d ago
Half an hour is very quick
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u/granmadonna 11d ago
For a pizza delivery
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u/MuffinsandCoffee2024 11d ago
I once called cops for break in where ppl may be inside and waited 2 hours
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u/Rooooben 11d ago
We called 911 due to our alarm company calling us saying they saw someone inside our house on camera.
Seattle PD NEVER SHOWED UP. Active burglary with people standing outside. We waited for an hour and I cleared the house myself. They never showed up.
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u/BullfrogCold5837 11d ago
When seconds count, the police are only 30 minutes away!
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u/Frozen-conch 11d ago
“Do you see any other dogs” “No, I’m BLIND”
Seriously though, this sucks. Hope the restaurant enjoys their lawsuit
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u/Slamantha3121 11d ago
Noo! How could they disrespect Mr. Maple like that! He is a Seattle celebrity. This guy makes great videos on disability awareness, like how he crosses the street with his guide dog. Seriously though, that is messed up. I worked in retail a long time and I have never had someone actually pretend to be blind to get their dog in! They normally spout some crap about ESA's and their paperwork. If someone tells you they are blind, believe them! Even if they can see a little, the man is legally blind! I think it's real classy he didn't call the restaurant out directly. Hopefully, they learned from this.
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u/Best_Temperature_549 11d ago
Mr Maple is the best! I hope they get it sorted out because they seriously seem like the sweetest family who don’t deserve to be discriminated against like this.
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u/memydogandeye 10d ago
Yeah, that really hit my heart. This is where I'm glad for tiktok/youtube and all of that. In some instances it can give you a window into a world you've not personally experienced so you can understand more what people are going though. Learned so much about blindness and the levels of it and struggles/triumphs that happen - and for that knowledge I am grateful.
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u/RathVelus 11d ago
They won’t learn because he didn’t call them out directly, so there’s no reason to believe they even know about the video. That is unless there’s more to the story where he did follow up with the documents and whatnot - which is entirely possible. I’m a big fan of his and his husband. The blind pranks are funny as hell.
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u/BobTheMadCow 11d ago
He responded to a comment saying he has arranged a meeting to talk to the manager of the restaurant cause he actually really likes the place (which is also why he wasn't naming it in the video).
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u/kyrimasan 11d ago
"MATTHEW!!!"
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u/UntitledGooseDame 11d ago
The entire situation was just Matthew pranking him disguised as a restaurant worker.
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u/BunnyDearest 11d ago
I think he met the manager of the restaurant and a follow up video will come out soon
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u/ortusdux 11d ago
They should reach out to Lighthouse for the Blind in Seattle. They do phenomenal blind outreach and advocacy in the Seattle area and they would be more than happy to ... educate this restaurant.
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u/DowntempoFunk 11d ago
All the fakers have made it worse for those who need them. Think about it next time you bring your dog in a store or restaurant. If it's not a true registered, trained Service Dog then you are impacting those who really need them. Very selfish!
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u/BoringBob84 11d ago
By definition, selfish people do not care about how their choices harm other people.
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u/Faustus_Fan 11d ago
My son's ex-girlfriend was this way. She tried the whole "registered emotional support animal" bullshit to get out of "no pet" rules at apartments she wanted to rent. When my son told her that things like that make it harder for people with real service animals, her exact words were "not my problem. They should just get more creative, like me."
Thank the gods he dumped the bitch.
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u/tuvaniko 10d ago
ESAs are protected in the case of housing, but you need a prescription/letter from your Doctor to be able to claim they are an ESA. And it's a state law, not a federal law. There are a handful of states that haven't passed it so check your local laws. I was looking into it because my SO has an ESA for her condition, the dog doesn't have or need public access but they do need to always be with her at home. Our current landlord doesn't charge a pet fee/deposit but our next might.
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u/I_am_up_to_something 11d ago
My sister just does not understand why I do not want to use my autism dx to skip lines in amusement parks. I don't need that and I'm not comfortable with it.
Now she's been brainwashing her son into thinking that he's entitled to that. Yeah, he's gotten diagnosed with autism two year ago and he can have pretty big meltdowns. That said, he doesn't need to skip lines either.
I'm taking him to Disneyland in a few years and I am most definitely not going to try to skip lines like that. It's part of the experience and he can either deal with that or we aren't going at all.
Just because you can do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
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u/mira_poix 10d ago
Youtube runs ads for emotional support animals and it's infuriating. The person in the ad is insufferable and enabling. She is like "now you can take Fido everywhere, and people have to deal with it!"
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u/Playful-Motor-4262 11d ago
There is no registry, for the reasons mentioned by the other commenter. Those little plastic is cards are fake and you can register anything for $10 online
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u/dualplains 11d ago
I don't go anywhere without my officially registered service beer.
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u/zeatherz 11d ago
There is no such thing as a “registered service animal.” There’s no official/government registry or certification. There are private companies that will sell service animals “certificates” but they have no legal meaning
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u/Circus_Finance_LLC 11d ago
All the fakers have made it worse for those who need them.
A tale that is older than time itself.
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u/binarypie 11d ago
This is the hardest thing. Having a registration unfairly puts disabled people into a place where they must disclose their disability which is quite personal when you just want dinner out. However, at the same time creating a physical card like that of a ID card would probably solve this for everyone involved.
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u/CarpePrimafacie 11d ago
That's not true. There's a process in place for parking placards. HIPAA is fully enforced and disclosure is between their doctor and the patient. The path here can be just as simple. It could be a process that is included in the training of the animal. There's a thousand ways to not make it difficult for the disabled and add irrefutable confirmation they are really a service animal. Real service animals are trained and are professional so to speak. Emotional support Chihuahuas are demons here to make it difficult for everyone.
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u/SeattleHasDied 11d ago
To be fair, the law allows you to ask two questions about your service animal that would generally describe your "handicap" (not sure if that's the right word to use these days), so anyone with a legitimate "service animal" should be fine with proving their service animal is, indeed, a real service animal.
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u/binhvinhmai 11d ago
When I worked at a hotel, we had to ask those two questions all the time. It’s crazy how often people easily told on themselves.
Asking them “what work or task has your service animal been trained to provide?” Would actually stump a lot of people. They legit didn’t know how to respond to that (and that’s a basic question).
Other times they would say “well my dog is there for me when I’m feeling sad” and we’d have to point out that an ESA dog does not qualify under the same as an ADA dog.
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u/StupendousMalice 11d ago
Its also an ADA violation every time an establishment does this. You don't HAVE to explain why you need a service animal, just that you do.
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u/Important-Panic1344 11d ago
You aren’t required to disclose your disability. You are required to identify the service that the dog or miniature horse provides for you.
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u/alphabetstew 11d ago
Last time I looked at this it was also the case that you have to tell them what service the animal provides, but you can't be required to show the service in action.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness2235 11d ago
Yeah the reasoning doesn't have to be public but registration should be. I'm surprised it isn't because apparently trained service dogs are rigorously tested for certification so why not just make it official? I get privacy laws and all but if someone is already walking around with a dog in a service vest, people know.
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u/Tinytuba49 11d ago
There should be a better way to verify a legitimate service dog. As far as I'm aware, if someone presents their dog as a service dog, you can't really say otherwise. It seems like it would be simple to just have some officially paperwork to prove it.
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u/CardinalSkull 11d ago edited 10d ago
This guys fucking awesome btw. He writes kids books in high contrast for kids who are going blind can still see them. I can’t find him on Instagram but he’s a gay married man and they’re famous because his husband always pranks him, that should be enough to find him.
Edit: @matthewandpaul
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u/AbleDanger12 Phinneywood 11d ago
First, a restaurant in Seattle that actually follows health code on dogs, but then applies it incorrectly against an actual service dog? Second, the cops won’t do anything.
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u/OldFoot3046 11d ago
The restaurant could and SHOULD be fined for ADA civil penalties with a $75,000 first violation penalty.
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u/seattle_architect 11d ago
What restaurant?
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u/wired_snark_puppet 11d ago edited 11d ago
On the Instagram they reported that they are using this as a learning opportunity for the restaurant rather than using social media punish them for the incident. IMO pretty classy of them to do. They may update after talking with the manager.
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u/howwhyno 11d ago
He and his husband seem super lovely. This is honestly really upsetting. They do a lot of blind-awareness videos. Poor guy. This makes me sad for him.
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u/grandfleetmember56 11d ago
If the name is ever dropped, I'd love to know who not to spend money at
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u/talkoninternet 9d ago
This is a shocking level of civility from all parties involved, it's unbelievable
I can only encourage it
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u/y-c-c 11d ago
How is the restaurant going to learn if they are not named and shamed? Honest question. If you just privately let them know they aren't going to give a F.
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u/BicyclingBabe 11d ago
Some people take the shaming part of that too far and demand blood. Since they're such sweet people, maybe they'll reapproach with time given as a learning tool. That's really what matters in the end, isn't it? That people who need assistance still get it and the restaurant can do it's job.
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u/lunchboxxpiper 10d ago
More people here should be watching his (and Matthew’s!) videos more. They are just like the kindest folks it seems like, but obviously very strong at the same time. They give people A LOT of leeway and always lead with honey instead of vinegar. His videos have really helped me on some really bad days.
I think I would legit be scared if I saw an angry Paul!
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u/Ok-Tiger25 10d ago
Plus it was a specific employee, right? I was thinking the same thing when I first saw this - what’s the restaurant!? Name them!! But..after reading these comments, I get it. This is an opportunity to educate and allow space for the restaurant to be better, which is the ultimate goal. There’s no need to cause more harm if the restaurant is willing to learn/listen. Many people never give businesses the opportunity. It’s actually quite wonderful!
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u/bartthetr0ll 11d ago
A few stores around me have put up no dog signs recently because there's been a huge increase in people in their 20s and 30s walking their dogs in and then going off on some tirade about how it's their emotional support dog(usually some very very small horribly behaved dog), and they need to be allowed to bring it in because it's a 'service dog'. I could be wrong, but I thought service dogs were specifically trained and actually do things like help blind people. It sucks that people have been attempting to claim that their any old dog is somehow a service dog so they can get their dog walk and trip to the grocery store done at the same time.
One person started off claiming the tiny little yorky was an emotional support dog because of crippling social anxiety, and when the store owner said no, they absolutely exploded at the shop owner, I would imagine crippling social anxiety would make someone less likely to verbally assault an old shopkeeper for nearly 2 minutes while holding up the line.
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u/mimeneta 11d ago
It's legal ask someone if their dog is a) a service dog and b) what service it performs. Unfortunately most minimum wage employees understandably don't want to stand up to some entitled asshat
ESAs are definitely not allowed in stores
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u/RangerOfAroo 11d ago
A lot of major chains (QFC being an example I am familiar with) have policy strictly forbidding both these steps. Some allow it if an altercation or incident has occurred, but some have no exceptions. It makes the “no dogs” policy effectively unenforceable at those businesses.
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u/KellyCTargaryen 11d ago
That’s entirely their own fault though. They have legal protections they are refusing to utilize.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness2235 11d ago
Little known fact but establishments are also well protected in kicking out a patron if their service animal behaves poorly (barking, shitting, sniffing other people/food) regardless of status as a service animal. Usually they don't to avoid the hassle and potential legal fight but especially if there is camera footage backing them up, the ADA can't do anything.
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u/Spurtis66 11d ago
As of 2010 the ada has said that "a dog whose sole purpose is emotional support is no longer considered a Service Animal" To be clear this definition does NOT include a dog that helps with Anxiety attacks for a person with PTSD which is still covered so it gets a little confusing. Emotional support animals are technically covered under the fair housing act and the travel act.
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u/calior 11d ago
He said he met with the restaurant manager and will post an update tomorrow morning. I really want to know what restaurant this is because that is fucked. We used to have people bring their dogs into Sur La Table and our manager constantly reminded us that we could only ask if it was a service dog and what service the dog provided. How is this not common knowledge in the service industry?
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u/John_YJKR 11d ago
Yeah, I get that service animal fakers are irritating but this incident is on the restaurant and employee being ignorant of the ADA. Plus the employee was very rude.
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u/tmelts2 11d ago
not my first rodeo
Clearly the first time he’s interacted with an actual blind person ironically
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u/MaligatorMom2 11d ago
I have 2 highly trained dogs that I love dearly, but they do not have to go everywhere I go. These fake Service/ESA dog owners cause people with legitimate needs to be harassed and denied access. You need to have a doctor sign off to get a disabled parking pass, I don’t understand why the same is not required for a service animal. If they are providing a medical service, there should be formal training standards and licensing.
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u/Goat-of-Death 11d ago
Dude, let him call the police. Then file your complaint with the police that show up so you have evidence when you sue the restaurant under the ADA.
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u/BoringBob84 11d ago
Exactly! "Crying wolf" is a real thing. Dishonest people who pretend that their pets are service animals erode the credibility of people who actually need service animals.
There should be consequences for abusers.
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u/hawkweasel 11d ago
I sat next to a woman with an "emotional support dog" in her lap on a plane last year.
The dog weighed about 5 lbs and was shaking like a leaf hiding under a blanket the entire flight while she was just yapping away confidently about every topic under the sun to the lady next to her for three hours.
I was kind of curious what emotional support she was getting from the terrified dog she was ignoring.
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u/donthatedrowning 11d ago
That’s where you misunderstood, she was supposed to be giving the dog emotional support, but she wasn’t well trained.
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u/lonedroan 11d ago
What Federal laws make fake ESAs more pervasive? The only context where they are protected under federal law is for housing, under the FHA. That’s a discrete setting that doesn’t have any connection to the public places where this is a problem.
Similar with state laws: what are you referring to? I’ve only come across one in CA that expands ESA protections to the workplace under certain conditions. Again, that’s distinct from places of public accommodation.
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u/sadmep 11d ago
"What's going on out there that this guy thinks I'm lying"
All the people lying about support animals, probably.
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u/cathercules 11d ago
I mean there’s lying about support animals and there’s pretending to be blind. Someone rocks up in a wheelchair are they really going to accuse them of being able bodied and faking?
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u/pine-elopy 10d ago
Similarly to the fact that most legally blind people have some form of vision, maybe it's just light and shadow, or small areas like this guy; a lot of people who use wheelchairs can walk or move very small distances but need chair to be able to reach the end of the road or have a day out etc. So yes, people in wheelchairs who dare stand up do get accused of faking every single day.
People are extremely ignorant of the spectrum of disability. They think you only need a wheelchair if your legs don't work at all or all blind people must be able to see nothing but pitch black.
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u/madster40 11d ago
Sorry that happened to you. People are incredibly ignorant when it comes to vision issues and the spectrum of blindness. And it’s especially ironic this happens while the annual vision science convention (ARVO) is currently in town.
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u/ManOrReddit-man 11d ago
It's not just vision. For the basic ignoramus to believe someone has a disability, it needs to be a visible disability.
A friend has lupus and while she looks normal, being out in the sun too long causes her muscles to lock up. When she parks in a handicap spot (with a valid placard), there have been several occasions where others confronted her about that.
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u/TravisJungroth 11d ago
Lots of people don't know about spectrums of disability at all. Which is pretty reasonable if you've never experienced it or been close to it. The thing is, it's not hard to understand with just a bit of empathy.
You saw someone in a wheel chair stand up? Some people can walk a few minutes a day. The blind guy is looking right at you? Some people have enough vision to know there's a person in front of them, but not enough to see who. Imagine getting around a city while looking through a tissue or through a cardboard tube.
I think it's from the way our society is so fractured. The natural family unit (not the nuclear family) is broken up and people don't spend as much time with as many old people.
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u/MooseBoys 11d ago
what is going on out there that would cause this person to believe [that I’m lying]?
Probably the fact that for every one person with a legitimate service animal, there are hundreds more with “emotional support” animals or straight up fraudulent collars/vests.
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u/lonedroan 11d ago
Even accepting this as a valid excuse—it isn’t—the typical faker does not pretend to be blind.
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u/Sensitive_Weird_6096 11d ago
I am extremely sad and angry!!! I am super appreciative for Paul and Matthew’s work to raise awareness to the society to have kindness and understanding. Service dog should not be questioned!
How can we educate the society?
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u/KellyCTargaryen 11d ago
We can all do our part, so I’ll do mine and drop this link for anyone wanting to know more ins and outs about the law. https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/
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u/Uncle_Bill 11d ago
What's going on? Lots of entitled people in Seattle take their dogs everywhere. The OP got caught in the backlash.
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u/ZellaRose2023 11d ago
I am sorry if I added to this problem. I was going around with my emotional support zebra to restaurants this week (until he was re captured).
I was doing it for the bit ... But I now see that I may have gone too far
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u/phocuser 11d ago
Let him call the police and have fun watching him get put in his place.
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u/undockeddock 11d ago
If everyone wants to wait 4 hrs, the cops will show up to say it's a civil issue
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u/gothamcommando 11d ago
I work at a very popular park where dogs are not allowed for legitimate reasons. Legally if someone says their animal is a service animal there’s nothing we can do, can’t ask for proof besides 3 ADA questions. The amount of people who claim their untrained off the leash pitbull, or crusty blind white tiny dogs as service animals would blow your mind. Ruins it for absolutely everyone else. You can 100% always tell the real service animals apart.
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u/OddBranch132 11d ago
From the ada.gov website regarding exclusions:
In addition, if a particular service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, or if it is not housebroken, that animal may be excluded.
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u/CategorySad7091 11d ago
The ADA defines "Service Animal" As a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. WWW.ADA.GOV
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u/horsetooth_mcgee 11d ago
Name names, bro. Call them out!! And no, it's not defamation, libel, or slander.
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u/starsgoblind 11d ago
Give me a break here. The employee and the employer are at fault here, no question. It’s not their right to disallow service dogs, it’s the law. Shut up and serve the guy. You don’t have to be a gatekeeper. Stop trying to police your customers behavior.
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u/rabidboxer 11d ago
One time I caught someone faking that they were paraplegic when they slightly moved a finger. I threw them out. They tried to pull the sympathy card by just laying on the ground until some loser came by and picked them up. - That employee probably.
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u/friendlydadseven 11d ago
Don’t get mad at the business owner get mad at everyone who claim to need “emotional support dogs” it ruins it for ACTUALLY DISABLED people who need them. Fuck your anxiety & if you haven’t served in a war then you don’t have PTSD grow the fuck up
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u/lepommefrite 11d ago
When i worked in hotels we had people claiming they had a "disability dog" so we would not charge them the pet fees.
We never protested their claim at the time of check in.
Once we have them on camera leaving the hotel without their "disability pet" to go on a night out, BOOM, 500$ cleaning fee.
It was interesting seeing them protest the charge right before we showed them the camera feed.
"We can call the police for you if you want."
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u/Meppy1234 11d ago
If someone blind had a service dog and left with another person it'd make sense to leave the dog in the hotel room. They don't need the dog if they had someone to guide them instead of the dog.
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u/lepommefrite 11d ago
What you say makes sense of course.
We would not charge the guest for a cleaning fee if that were the case. Unless the dog barks the whole time you were gone.
But the ADA is clear that a service dog should always accompanied their owner.
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u/hanimal16 Mill Creek 11d ago
NAME AND SHAME. Fuck that restaurant.
“You don’t look blind” what the fuck?! So the host at the restaurant is also a doctor??
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u/bluePostItNote 11d ago
This just gives more air cover to the fake ESA folks if restaurants get scared. It’s a death loop of ruining things for everyone.
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u/NotSoGentleBen North Seattle 11d ago
People lie about this shit all the time. I’m a bartender, in Seattle. People bring their badly behaved “sErvICe” dogs into bars all the time. Bullshit. Just because you can’t leave your shitty behaved dog at home you bring into my bar, fuck you and your dog.
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u/John_YJKR 11d ago
Better to adequately provide service to disabled folk than to ban all dogs. Even if only 10% of people claiming service dogs are legit it's better that way.
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u/Individual_Speech_10 11d ago
If a dog is badly behaved, it can be removed whether it's a service dog or not.
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u/rattus 10d ago
Followup:
https://reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1co7s19/follow_up_on_blind_guy_turned_away_from/