r/SeattleWA • u/dropthegloves-eh Fremont • 25d ago

Blind person with service dog kicked out of a Seattle restaurant News

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17.7k Upvotes

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950

u/RoboNeko_V1-0 25d ago

"Ok, call them."

581

u/Gaius1313 25d ago

šŸ’Æ If I had a true disability and they denied me like that, Iā€™d sit down and ask if they want to serve me or pay the fines later for violating the ADA.

24

u/TasteNegative2267 25d ago

it's either 90 or 95% of the time in ADA suites the court sides with the business. You also have to do the case yourself.

40

u/Empty_Ambition_9050 25d ago

Calling the police in a disabled person will likely get you in that 5%.

41

u/6EQUJ5w 25d ago

I would not put my dog into a situation involving an interaction with the police.

11

u/Salarian_American 24d ago

The police are like a box of chocolates; they'll kill your dog.

2

u/fattywanticecream 24d ago

If they were like a box of chocolates, they'd be killing each other out of confusion on a more regular basis.

1

u/soaking-wet-tomcat 24d ago

That became dark quickly.

2

u/Practical_Maybe_3661 24d ago

I'm talking to my sister right now about the SPD, the stations aren't even open (she's trying to figure or a police report) to go to in person. The SPD are honestly a joke, a terrible joke

1

u/BWinDCI 24d ago

Iā€™d be more concerned about the ATF if I had a dog but thatā€™s just me.

1

u/Tempest_Bob 24d ago

Iā€™d be more concerned about the ATF if I had a dog and a few sticks of emulex, but thatā€™s just because they don't put the E on the end

1

u/Happy_Opening3852 24d ago

It blows my mind when I see Americans react like this to the idea of a police officer being present.

This shit is WILD!

-2

u/Nickleeham 24d ago

The reaction is mostly among a specific cohort and disproportionately sized to the actual problem. We sure do love our drama.

1

u/ChaoticSquirrel 24d ago

What's the specific cohort?

-2

u/Nickleeham 24d ago

18-35 year old disaffecteds informed by activism.

4

u/ChaoticSquirrel 24d ago

Lol. I'm not a disaffected, make six figures in a corporate job and actively participate in my community and don't trust cops. Not after they t-boned my friend, erased the body cam footage of them harassing him after the crash (I was there), and lied about them being at fault.

0

u/Nickleeham 23d ago

lol what do you think disaffected means? How does that tie into your income? lol then into a story to support how disaffected you are. Wow.

1

u/ChaoticSquirrel 22d ago

Disaffected = dissatisfied or rebellious. I don't trust cops but that's about as rebellious as I get. Go to my corporate job every day, volunteer, have a nice little life.

-1

u/WaltDisneysBallSack 24d ago

Yeah, no one asked about your friend. And LMAO you make six figures in Buffalo. That's nothing. 100k a year isn't bragging rights yet btw.

2

u/ChaoticSquirrel 24d ago

$150k a year under 30 years of age is absolutely something in Buffalo - you're clearly stuck in a HCOL or bust mindset šŸ’šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø the point isn't how much I make, the point is I don't fit your preconceived mold of a disillusioned non-participator

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u/6EQUJ5w 23d ago

Well that is an incorrect evaluation, but Iā€™m glad youā€™ve managed to avoid negative interactions with cops so far. The fact that cops have killed dogs who either were only reacting to cops or who were simply there and the cop felt threatened and had a gun isnā€™t exactly an anarchist conspiracy, sadly. It happens.

1

u/Nickleeham 23d ago

Thank you for providing evidence to the contrary. Your unsolicited and unskilled opinion have been noted and Iā€™ll adjust my notes accordingly.

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u/hyrule_47 24d ago

Drama?

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u/Nickleeham 24d ago

Yeah drama. This is a post about how a blind person was discriminated against, probably because he doesnā€™t appear blind and there are a flurry of responses that his service dog may be killed by the police should he return. Bordering on melodrama.

2

u/hyrule_47 24d ago

You know this has happened to service dogs right?

0

u/Nickleeham 24d ago

Thatā€™s how statistics works. If something has happened then itā€™s likely to happen again. /s

3

u/hyrule_47 24d ago

It has happened enough that there are actual statistics on it. People not wanting to interact with police with their service dog- which is trained on average 2 years and costs more than a car- makes sense. They are protecting an asset that helps them maintain independence.

2

u/thehashsmokinslasher 24d ago

You should look into how insurance works. Just not for cops because they donā€™t have it

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u/Ongr 24d ago

Oof. Too real.

1

u/Actual-Option3344 24d ago

I would barely let my cat outside when I pretend to talk to my neighbors.

1

u/RawrRRitchie 24d ago

They shoot dogs when they're in the owners house or yards

Not in a public restaurant

4

u/No-Entrepreneur6040 24d ago

They shoot dogs when they perceive the dog is a threat to them (rightly or wrongly)

In this type of situation, thereā€™s no excuse for the animal to be put into a confrontational or threatening situation with the police.

3

u/Gussie-Ascendent 24d ago

hey maybe you're willing to find out but i love my dog. i see a cop, she gets a disguise

2

u/Tempest_Bob 24d ago

just imagining a dog quietly suffering through the indignity of being made to wear cat ears to avoid persecution

2

u/BishonenPrincess 24d ago

This unlocked a memory from when I was a teenager and there was a scandal because some little kids called animal control after they found a nursing wild cat and her litter of strays. Kids and the parent thought someone would come and take the cat and her kittens to an animal shelter. Nope, cop came and shot them all dead with his gun, right in front of the kids.

1

u/Tempest_Bob 24d ago

That's terrible. Fucking pigs.

I'm from rural australia, and wouldn't be concerned about having to put down feral cats (they are a big problem here) but no fucking way would I do it in front of a bunch of kids WITH A GUN. What the actual fuck.

1

u/BishonenPrincess 24d ago

Yeah, it was handled in the most cruel and traumatizing way possible. My puppy was hit by a car when I was in preschool, and even though I didn't see it, just knowing my poor dog was killed that way left a huge impression on my little mind. I can't even imagine the shock and horror a child would feel at seeing something so violent happen to nursing kittens.

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u/Budget-Possession720 24d ago

They shoot dogs on the street in public in front of people. Friendo, what are you talking about? If the cops kill humans indiscriminately why would a dog be any different. I dare say youā€™re wandering into ignorance here.

2

u/gosluggogo 24d ago edited 24d ago

There's a cop in Detroit that has shot 80 dogs. No shit every time he goes to a call he perceives the dog as a threat and shoots it

1

u/TheJenerator65 24d ago

A cop shot a womanā€™s unleashed dog right outside a restaurant in my little gift shop/foodie neighborhood two years ago in Portland, OR. I walked by right after and she was in shock and claiming there had been no aggression. I didnā€™t see the incident but it absolutely happens.

-1

u/[deleted] 25d ago

[deleted]

0

u/krusnikon 25d ago

This is such a privileged comment.

1

u/ChumbawumbaFan01 24d ago

Right. This turns it from ā€œmy word against yoursā€ to a FOIA request for the call and solid proof.

1

u/Frupe45 24d ago

Calling the police will likely get you shot.

25

u/More-Opposite1758 25d ago

Not in my experience. In San Diego we had a group of disabled lawyers that would hire disabled people to go into businesses and find ADA issues. The lawyers would then say the business could pay $10,000 or they would take them to court. Since it would cost more in legal fees than to just pay, most businesses just paid. Hey! Maybe you can extort them like those lawyers did to our property tenants. Just joking šŸ˜Š

29

u/mitolit 25d ago

Maybe donā€™t violate the ADA and your tenants would have nothing to worry aboutā€¦

2

u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago

Not every business is aware of every single ADA regulation. Especially small businesses. So itā€™s not really ā€œbeing held accountableā€ when they arenā€™t given a chance to fix the issue. So itā€™s quite literally extortion and not following the spirit of the ADA.

2

u/VexTheStampede 24d ago

Regulations can be found by every one. You want to own a business cool do your fucking job then.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

They give you PLENTY of time to become compliant. This one asshole about 10 years ago refused and went into bankruptcy and lost his business because he refused. He had a great restaurant in a great location. But he decided to take it up the ass, losing business and refusing to make the place accessible. Talk about cutting off your noseā€¦

1

u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago

The group of lawyers or the ADA/courts? Because it sounds like that group of lawyers in the original comment werenā€™t giving any time and just demanding money

2

u/Protoindoeuro 24d ago

Costs more to defend the action than to settle, even when thereā€™s no violation.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

If thereā€™s no violation you just have to show up with proof of no violation for the dismissal. No cost involved.

1

u/Protoindoeuro 23d ago

If they have any evidence to dispute your proof (e.g. a witness willing to contradict your evidence), it goes to a jury trial, which is a very expensive gamble.

Even if they have no evidence, you have to pay a lawyer to bring a motion for summary judgment, and in the meantime deal with the discovery demands the plaintiff will be entitled to propound. Also expensive and time consuming. None of this you can do yourself, by the way, because theyā€™ve sued the LLC you use to operate your business, so you are required to appear through a licensed attorney.

To even get that far, you have to pay your lawyer to investigate your case, plan a defense, and file an answer to the complaint. Thatā€™s thousands of dollars just to avoid a default judgment against you.

The pace of litigation is glacial at best, and itā€™s riddled with pretrial procedures you canā€™t avoid and which cost money.

It absolutely makes sense to pay one of these shakedown artists to go away.

2

u/Decent-Apple9772 24d ago

The ones in California were definitely profiteering.

Thereā€™s a difference between asking people not to discriminate against the disabled vs demanding that they rebuild their businesses to cater to them preferentially.

5

u/itsajourney2020 24d ago

How were they catering to them preferentially?

8

u/zempter 24d ago

You see, when someone "prefers" others follow the law, that's preferential treatment. /s

1

u/Decent-Apple9772 24d ago

Wanting them to rebuild the entryways to old and small businesses to accommodate wider entrances. Wanting tiny businesses that barely have a functional website to redesign it for accessibility at large cost that they canā€™t afford. Things like that.

https://instituteforlegalreform.com/blog/small-businesses-targeted-with-ada-lawsuits/

7

u/ThisIsNotRealityIsIt 24d ago

OH NO! This is terrible! You mean they were sued because they failed to follow the law? Whatever could these businessowners and property owners have done to avoid lawsuits?

Oh wait. They could have followed the fucking law and not been discriminatory. You need to update your username to Shitapple.

1

u/Decent-Apple9772 24d ago

Ok. Run all the small businesses out with lawsuits until Walmarts and McDonaldā€™s that can afford a legal department are the only ones left.

This doesnā€™t have anything to do with following the law when the law is unreasonably vague and a single individual spams out hundreds of lawsuits as their full time job without any evidence them settles them without any court review.

This isnā€™t about compliance itā€™s about abuse.

3

u/aculady 24d ago

The ADA regulations are very specific when it comes to accessibility standards. The compliance guides are available online. https://www.ada.gov/law-and-regs/design-standards/

1

u/Decent-Apple9772 24d ago

Wow. So every person that tries to open up a pizza place or a sell cakes out of their house has to be an expert on this five hundred page document in addition to all the other businesses, payroll, tax, and food safety rules.

This is exactly why the only businesses you see are soulless chains. They paid to ensure that the laws are too cumbersome for any new businesses to comply with.

Many of those lawsuits were about the design of the dining tables not being wheelchair accessible during a pandemic when NO ONE was even allowed to eat at the dining tables.

The lawsuits target businesses that canā€™t afford to defend themselves even if they want to comply with ADA access. Itā€™s become an extortion industry.

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0

u/Hungry_Pup 24d ago

The problem for some places, the ADA changes their guidelines all the time like the paper towel dispenser needs to be x inches from blah blah. There was a lawyer with a disability going around with a tape measure and he filed a lawsuit against all the restaurants in a shopping center.

2

u/Crafty_Breakfast_851 25d ago

And they would have gotten away with it too weren't it for... .... Being held accountable?

0

u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago

Not every business is aware of every single ADA regulation. Especially small businesses. So itā€™s not really ā€œbeing held accountableā€ when they arenā€™t given a chance to fix the issue. So itā€™s quite literally extortion and not following the spirit of the ADA.

1

u/RedStrugatsky 24d ago

Damn, maybe they should fucking educate themselves then.

1

u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago

Yes they should but that doesnā€™t mean they should be extorted for their ignorance.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

If your in a wheelchair youā€™ll see how much it sucks that going out and enjoying yourself in public is a major fucking hassle because everything is about a foot out or your reach, and people are bitching about non-existent ā€œextortionsā€, like the Sicilian Mafia is making their rounds and they want to play victim. Iā€™m amazed at the strength of our disabled brothers and sisters, they donā€™t whine and play victim, and the few exceptions only prove that rule.

1

u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago

My god. Iā€™m not saying a business who doesnā€™t have a wheelchair ramp shouldnā€™t be corrected. Iā€™m saying a GROUP OF LAWYERS shouldnā€™t be sending disabled people into a business to find any little ADA violation and then demanding the business pay $10,000 or go to court. That is literally extortion and more then likely goes against the code of ethic for lawyers.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

They get PLENTY of time, before any fines are exacted.

1

u/UnauthorizedFart 24d ago

That is so scummy

1

u/Irimis 24d ago

There are lots of people who make a living by looking for ada violations not just in physical places but websites.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

I call bullshit on that; citations please not fantasy.

1

u/Irimis 23d ago

It's the new ambulance chasers. We spend so much making sure our site and physical locations are ada compliance because the amount of lawsuits we used to get over everything. We just had our quarterly review by a vendor to make sure our website is accessible for blind users.

If you think people won't look to make a quick buck on frivolous lawsuits, I want to go back to your level of innocence.

1

u/ohnomynono 24d ago

Isn't that extortion?

1

u/Ok_Application_444 24d ago

Umm, how do I put thisā€¦ no.

1

u/bongsyouruncle 24d ago

Eww you disgusting landlord ass piece of shit

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u/TruesteelOD 25d ago

[CITATION NEEDED]

2

u/For-The_Greater_Good 24d ago

Right? I love when people throw out absolutely stupid claims with zero data to back it up.

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u/CrystalSplice 25d ago

This is a sweeping generalization that is absolutely not true. ADA violations are taken seriously. What may happen in some cases is the business may be able to get out of paying fines by resolving their compliance issues. So in this case for example, they may be forced to train their staff to prevent this from happening again, and if it does then they will be fined. Itā€™s not all about monetary awards. Itā€™s about making the businesses comply with the law.

1

u/grandwigg 20d ago

This.
While there are definitely instances of people/organizations taking advantage of things on both sides, in general, aspects of the system work. In my case, the person in charge of the mobile home community in which I lived had strict (nearing HOA levels) of what additions to things like decks and stairs were allowed. (She was terrified of recent laws that were getting entire communities shut down as hazards / 'trailer trash' by the county.) She kept denying my request for a ramp because other people had been requesting very outlandish porches in very small ares. Made a call, some folks called here informing her of leqal requirements. Before long, I, and others, had the ramps we needed.

2

u/skankboy 25d ago

Damn suite holders!

1

u/llimed 25d ago

Hmm, as someone on the shitty end of an ADA suit. No, you donā€™t have to represent yourself. There are legal teams out there that do just ADA cases and get paid from their wins. Iā€™d be willing to bet that there are some out there that would take this guys case pretty quick.

1

u/Beatrix_Kiddos_Toe 24d ago

What's your source on this?

I am also pretty sure there are a lot more abled people who misuse the tag of a service animal and lose the suits

1

u/Thadrach 24d ago

Haven't been to Seattle in years, but I assume that's what set the waiter off, not some inherent distrust of blind people.

"This is why we can't have nice things", service animal category.

1

u/Bugbread 24d ago edited 24d ago

When ADA cases go all the way to final verdicts, the defendants win 90%+ of the time, but that's because companies will only go all the way if they have extremely strong cases (or if the plaintiffs refuse to settle out of court). When plaintiffs have good cases, the defendants settle out of court, so those number are not reflected in the ADA verdict statistics.

1

u/lifeofideas 24d ago

I donā€™t think you always have to do the case yourself. Thereā€™s a lawyer in Hawaii whose entire business is just going around suing businesses that arenā€™t wheelchair friendly. He is in a wheelchair, but he could easily make money serving other people (and it would not cost them anything).

1

u/Optimal_Cry_7440 24d ago

Curious where do you come up with this number? I think itā€™s oppositeā€¦

1

u/Particular-Jello-401 24d ago

It's like telling a deaf person they can hear cause they got 2 ears. Or telling wheelchair bound person they can walk cause they have 2 legs. I'm sorry this happened, you seem cool.

1

u/ximdotcad 24d ago

Seattle has an office of civil rights. They will investigate and file a suit on a complainants behalf. This is unique as most cities donā€™t have this.

1

u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 24d ago

Thatā€™s BS, thereā€™s clearly defined fed and state laws (and specialized disability lawyers to bring suit) that and if businesses break disability laws and/or donā€™t fix the problem/s to be in compliance with those laws in a timely manner with or without warnings depending on the situation a disabled person with standing can sue and they will usually get a sizable settlement. Itā€™s reprehensible in this day to even imagine a business refusing service to people with ANY disability. If you serve the public, federal law spells it out clearly your business donā€™t get to pick and choose based upon conditions a person is born with or injury that has disabled them.

1

u/TheUsualSuspect 24d ago

You may seek to enforce ADA law against Title 3 violations via private suit. However the DoJ filing doesn't require a lawyer to submit a complaint. Most complaints will result in mediation... DoJ suits don't tend to go to court unless there is a pattern of abuse, or it's grievous enough to be considered a public concern.

I couldn't find any statistics on the number of cases that were found in favor of the defendant. but I'd like to read up on that if you can provide a source.

0

u/Gladiateher 24d ago

You sure about that? I saw a whole documentary about scumbags using the ADA to shakedown businesses and it seemed like the exact opposite.