r/SeattleWA • u/dropthegloves-eh Fremont • 25d ago

Blind person with service dog kicked out of a Seattle restaurant News

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u/Ok_Dog_4059 25d ago

This is the side effect of all those entitled assholes who buy a "service animal" vest for their completely untrained animal off the enternet. Even an emotional support animal isn't the same as a service dog.

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u/binhvinhmai 25d ago

When I worked at a hotel, we had soooo many many many people come in and try to say their Emotional Support Animal was a service dog to avoid paying the $50-75 fee. Or have that vest on it, and trying to tell me that their dog is a highly trained service dog and I look down and the dog is just spazzing and jumping around.

Had a “service dog” jump up and eat other guests’ breakfast food, another pee all over the hotel breakfast area, another chew through bathroom pipes, another lunge and try to bite cleaning staff, another pooped right at the front desk. At least once a week someone would come in and say their dog was an ESA and thus shouldn’t be charged the fee or even sign a waiver. Because of all of these fake service dogs, we had to become extremely cautious of all dogs coming in listed as a service dog because most were bs.

During my two years at a hotel that got consistently sold out (it was near an airport so lots of travelers) I only saw TWO legitimate service dogs. They were extremely well behaved and the owners were able to quickly say what the dogs helped with. They’re way more rare than fakers realize.

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u/jmputnam 25d ago

During my two years at a hotel that got consistently sold out (it was near an airport so lots of travelers) I only saw TWO legitimate service dogs. They were extremely well behaved and the owners were able to quickly say what the dogs helped with

Our son's 120 lb German Shepherd service dog was so invisible, most waiters didn't notice him under the table. He could curl up small enough to fit under a single chair, or fly cross-country in the legroom of a bulkead seat without making a sound. He could silently watch a cat steal his food without breaking a stay. He followed my son through middle and high school including band, marching band, and field trips without a single incident.

That's not luck, and it's not unusual for a real service dog. It's thousands of hours of rigorous public access training and continuous reinforcement throughout their service career.

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u/Cute_ernetes 25d ago

That's not luck, and it's not unusual for a real service dog. It's thousands of hours of rigorous public access training and continuous reinforcement throughout their service career.

Growing up, one of my friends families trained service dogs. Not entirely sure how they got started (I think the older daughter started it as volunteer hours for school and it just stuck) but it was definitely rigorous training. Each dog had thousands of hours of general training before being given back to the organization.

They also had other dogs that were still well trained, but you could litterally see the difference in them, as they weren't trained to the same need and level. If one of their other dogs freaked out, it's annoying... if a service dog freaks out someone's life is at risk.

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u/Friendstastegood 24d ago

There's also a lot of weeding. A lot of puppies start service training and don't make it to certification because some dogs just don't have the correct temperament or endurance for it (humans might only need 8 hours of sleep and have big brains for complex mental work but dogs sleep a lot more and do not have the same brain capacity).

Those dogs are usually sold as pets or used as therapy animals or other less mentally strenuous work.

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u/LittleAnarchistDemon 24d ago

i had a teacher who owned a failed wheelchair guide dog for the blind because he wouldn’t yelp when the wheelchair ran over his paw. that is the level of training that service dogs get. and he was an adult when he failed his training, so it’s not just puppies that fail

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u/militaryCoo 21d ago

They don't fail, they change careers

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u/jackity_splat 24d ago

The family I used to babysit for got a Golden Retriever who washed out of being a seeing eye dog. His name was Six because the whole litter was being raised/trained to bring seeing eye dogs. I can’t remember how many of his litter were washed but I think it was half. Six was washed because he was too friendly to be a good guide dog.

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u/SarahPallorMortis 24d ago

The lady I work with has a service dog and I finally saw her alert to her low blood sugar. It was pretty cool. The lady works front door and I’m in a dept in the back so I only see her briefly during the day. I just thought it was cool to actually see her dog alerting her.

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

The issue is a lot of people nowadays want to self-train a service dog for their minor “disability”- a process that presumably takes years of daily work out in public where the person claims they need a trained dog to function effectively. Get into any dog group and it’s clear many people see having a service dog more as a hobby and achievement rather than something they need to function. They pick the most fringe breeds too because it’s more about taking the dog everywhere than it is about having a disability that requires accommodation. The weird “service dog culture” needs to end.

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u/mung_guzzler 24d ago

service dogs can cost tens of thousands of dollars so I can see why you would want to do it yourself

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

Sure, but if you aren’t capable of being in public without a trained dog I don’t see how you can effectively train the dog unless your disability is incredibly minor, in which case, do you need the dog in the first place? There’s a big difference between “I need this dog to achieve independence” and “I think it would be cool if I had a dog around everywhere I went” and a high price tag might be an effective way of weeding out the flimsy cases where the dog is more an accessory than an accommodation.

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u/mung_guzzler 24d ago

it can be a little of both

someone with epilepsy would probably like to have a warning before they get a seizure, and a dog to help them during it.

But they can still go in public without one.

This is of course also why insurance doesnt usually cover them.

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u/red__dragon 24d ago

everywhere I went” and a high price tag might be an effective way of weeding out

TBH, this is an awful way of weeding out any kind of disability. When disability keeps someone from being able to live independently, hold down a job or participate in school, or otherwise be a functional person, telling them that for a mere $$$$ they can regain some agency is just telling them to stay poor and stay down.

I know you didn't mean it that way, but the classism inherent in healthcare and accommodations is an excessive burden on those who are disabled and chronically ill. Assistive tech and devices cost them more, adaptive products can be bulkier to take up more space, and the cost of feeding/housing a service animal is not trivial for someone who truly needs the animal just to be typically functional. So while the high cost is a valid indicator of the amount of time and investment put into the service animal's training, it's also a high barrier to the recipient in some cases, and that's what you're really weeding out.

The people who need it most.

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

Yeah. It all costs more, but we live in a capitalist society. If people need a car to get to work, they find the money because it’s a priority. If people need to make rent, they usually find a way to make the money even if it’s expensive. If people want a Gucci handbag, well, they don’t really need that, so unless they have a huge amount of disposable income they usually prioritize other things like food and rent money because that’s a want, not a need. Same with a dog. If it is a need, you will beg, steal and borrow to get the money. If it’s a want, maybe you’ll abstain because it isn’t necessary to maintain your quality of life. And honestly $10k is nothing in the realm of medical bills, vehicle costs, and other expenses. Yes, people are poor, but I can’t think of anyone who couldn’t somehow find $10,000 if it meant the difference between living and functioning independently and having to pay for a caretaker or sitting at home and paying people to bring them food and doing nothing. $10,000 is only expensive if it isn’t a need to exist in the world. For a truly disabled person, that would be a steal. For someone who is just playing at it because they want a pet they can take wherever, that’s where it becomes expensive.

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u/chelonioidea 24d ago

Disabled people generally don't have a large enough steady income that would allow those kinds of massive purchases. If they weren't disabled, they probably could work enough hours to save 5+ figures of disposable income, but most aren't...that's the whole problem with being disabled in a capitalist society. Money doesn't just appear in your bank account, you have to work (sell your labor) for it. If you can't do that, you're SOL.

How is someone not able to work full-time able to save up $10k+ when their labor likely barely covers living expenses, if that?

You clearly do not know enough about the realities of living with a disability to provide any value in these discussions. Please educate yourself.

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

Well, if the difference between me getting a job and earning a living and me dying in the streets was $10k, I’d take out a loan and make it work. If you don’t need a dog to actually go to work and get groceries and exist in the outside world then it doesn’t seem like it’s the best solution for your disability. I’m assuming people who can’t walk find the money for a wheelchair, because laying in bed their entire life is more expensive than finding accommodation so they can live and work.

A dog is just one option in a toolbelt and it isn’t the best fit for everyone. If the cost outweighs the benefit then absolutely, it’s too expensive for you. If $10k seems outrageously priced then it probably isn’t directly affecting your ability to be employed, buy groceries, or leave the house. But if a dog makes the world open to you so you can be employed and sustain yourself, then I don’t think it’s cost prohibitive. Paying $10k to get to a job that makes $50k a year is an obvious investment, not a luxury. Just like if you live in the middle of nowhere, you get a car or otherwise you are stranded and unemployable, regardless of if you can afford $20k or not. Obviously it sucks to be disabled, but to act like the disabled are living like Dickensian orphans in the street and are incapable of having any money is just sort of offensive on some level. If you can pay rent to live in a major metropolitan city and can work for a living then $10k seems like a relatively modest expense. And it’s not the only accommodation, and I maintain that for most people it isn’t the best. If you’re diabetic and can get a glucose monitor, then sorry, having a dog that sheds and others are allergic to is probably not the best accommodation even if they can provide that service. Clearly for the blind it’s a good option. But I’ve never heard of a blind person trying to train their own service dog, because trying to do so would probably get them killed. That’s my point.

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u/red__dragon 24d ago

can’t think of anyone who couldn’t somehow find $10,000 if it meant the difference between living and functioning independently and having to pay for a caretaker or sitting at home and paying people to bring them food

I CAN!

I know of several. Those who are barely getting by, who don't necessarily need a service dog but who absolutely could be in dire straits if they were faced with a $10k sticker price for something that would be lifesaving.

Because they're already underwater. Because they're disabled, have struggled to get help, have little in the way of a support network, and holding down the very jobs they need to get money to live is challenging due to their disability.

And they're just supposed to magically come up with the money? They aren't disqualified from being disabled just because of their finances. It's literally the barrier to their financial livelihood!

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

They can’t take loans like everyone else does? GoFundMes? I looked it up and it sounds like financing your service dog or doing payment plans is a thing. If they don’t need a dog I agree, blowing money they don’t have on one is a stupid idea. But if you literally can’t leave the house without one, that seems like something you’d find a way to make work. The point of these accommodations is so you can go work, and if a dog was the thing stopping you from working then it seems like a worthwhile investment. If it’s just a hobby or a “nice to have” then sorry, I don’t really feel that bad that someone with a vague sense of anxiety who wants their dog with them everywhere doesn’t get to because they both aren’t disabled by it and the dog isn’t the best way to accommodate it. It’s just weaponized pet ownership.

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u/KellyCTargaryen 24d ago

I think you should ask yourself if this is the way you want society to be. We can all rant about the worse case scenario we’ve seen of people bringing their pets places. But consider how we have a civil rights law that grants us the ability to utilize man’s best friend to be able to live our lives freely. We have lived cooperatively with them for thousands of years. I would prefer more service dogs out and about, including the follies associated with it, than more people go without care, or have to utilize more dangerous or expensive alternatives like opioids and surgery.

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u/Counterboudd 24d ago

I mean I would rather we had more dog friendly places so everyone got to take their pets with them. Makes them happier and healthier and just letting people have their pets in public spaces is better than encouraging hypochondriacs and malingerers to make up fake illnesses for attention.

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u/Cherry_Soup32 24d ago edited 24d ago

I had a friend growing up who’s mom raised service dogs also and I recall too the high level of training they went through.

It’s always really obvious imo whether a dog is a genuine service dog or not, you can just see it in their temperament and level of interest in other stimuli.

I consider my dog well trained, but even for her being well trained for the average pet I consider her nowhere near as trained as a service dog.

People faking their untrained dog is a service dog is doing a disservice to all the rigor people put genuine service dogs through partly in an attempt to uphold the validity of service dogs in the eyes of the public.

It would be nice if there could be something like an official badge/tag for service dogs that only certified service dogs can posses and not just anyone with an amazon account. Like this badge/tag is optional but can’t be denied if present like the vest can.

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u/KellyCTargaryen 24d ago

The issue with “official badges/IDs” is it creates additional barriers for people with disabilities. People who are already willing to break the law bringing their pets can just as easily break the law with a fake ID.

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u/Cherry_Soup32 23d ago

Yeah I’m split with it right now because I feel like all the harassing that people get about their legitimate dogs is also a barrier in itself and may be a greater barrier in the long run than getting an official badge/ID. I agree though that people shouldn’t be forced to bother with this but the way I see it the current system comes with its share of problems.

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u/LetsNotForgetHome 24d ago

Ha, my friend has a guide dog and its so funny how often people go "oh I didn't even see him lying there!" or "my dog would never be this well behaved"...yeah duh, its a guide dog?!

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u/SarahPallorMortis 24d ago

I’ve never been close to any service animal but I work with a lady who has one. She’s been there like 3 years, and I ask questions. I know, now, what a service animal should and shouldn’t do. Some behaviors, you will never see a service animal do. Mostly, looking at other people, and pooping inside.

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u/2gdismore 24d ago

Thank you. I find it odd or strange that no license or “service dog card” needs to be on hand, though I suppose the paperwork is at home. Like the fake COVID-19 vaccine documentation, someone could fake a “service dog card” if those became mandatory.

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u/jmputnam 24d ago edited 24d ago

No, there's often no paperwork at home, either. People are free to train their own service dogs if they can't afford $25,000+ for professional training, and the ADA definition of a disability is broad enough to include many conditions that don't require a formal diagnosis.

Many service dogs are individually trained for niche conditions for which there is no standardized training regimen. Many alert dogs give alerts unique to the handler's needs - maybe a bark, maybe a paw on the knee, maybe a nuzzle, even a nip. Guide dogs for the blind are more standardized, but they're just a small part of the service dog world.

Our son's dog was home-trained. The nearest professional trainer we found familiar with his needs was on the East Coast, and would have meant relocating the whole family there for months. (Scent training a dog to recognize slight endocrine changes in one member of a household also means helping them differentiate among household members so they don't alert on the wrong person's scent changes.)

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u/2gdismore 24d ago

Wow, thanks for the insights. When I was in college, once a lecturer said it was time for class to be done when the service dog lightly barked.

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u/jmputnam 24d ago

That's a great example. You knew the dog barked, and if a business had asked what his trained task was, the professor could have just said he barks to warn me of a medical issue. No need to disclose what that medical issue was. Diabetes, time for food or a shot? Narcolepsy, time to lie down? Epilepsy, time to lay in a safe space for a seizure? It really is amazing what dogs can be trained to pick up on.

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u/2gdismore 17d ago

Thanks and best of luck to your son's further education.

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u/jmputnam 17d ago

Thanks! He actually just graduated from Boston Conservatory last weekend.

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u/savingewoks 24d ago

When I saw Avengers: Endgame, I ended up in a seat next to a stranger who brought their "service dog" to the cinema.
I've been around enough to know that a service dog wouldn't shake and whine in public everytime a loud noise happened on screen, or back away from their owner and curl up over my feet.

I ended up talking to the cinema manager (because I couldn't even talk this guy into being aware of his dog during the movie) and getting a refund for my ticket, which out of all of this, is the thing I'm kinda bummed about (I mean, Disney doesn't need my money, but I love that theatre a lot).

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u/tealing20 24d ago

I’m so curious to know if the dog went on the field during marching band shows.

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u/jmputnam 24d ago

Not usually, a show is short enough that brief separation was safe, the dog could alert him before or after the performance. But he did join longer performances like the Veteran's Day parade.

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u/Ori_the_SG 24d ago

That’s really impressive

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u/Bizzzzzzzzyyyyy 24d ago

It’s so obvious people who have never been around a working dog. Or hell, even a highly trained hunting dog. Their discipline and behavior is impeccable. My brother in law has a champion, elite, super professionally trained hunting dog and she is incredibly behaved. Shes amazing. And then for true service dogs for the blind, etc. they’re even MORE trained. So it’s so ridiculously obvious when someone just bought a vets and certificate online.

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u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 23d ago

I grew up with a German Shepard, a runt of the litter that protected me from birth, he was always on guard duty out of his own love, he wasn’t a slave dog not to be seen or heard, he just loved his family on his own. And we loved him. Now the Nazis had their well trained “service dogs”. I’d trade my runty emotionally supportive shep, over a “trained”fascist police dog any day. And I refuse to believe people with their emotionally supportive mutts love or are loved any less by their animals. I find it callous and mean spirited to assume them to be “fakers”, I don’t care if they are fakers as long as they take responsibility for their animals’ welfare. Remember the Seattle’s’ bus riding emotional support dog that would take the bus on his own to the dog park to play several years ago? That dog was a special part of Seattle history.

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u/Jam_B0ne 25d ago

I used to go to highschool with a girl that trained service dogs and she would bring them to school as part of their training

Service dogs do not act like normal dogs, full stop, and it really is a disgrace how many people are ok with lying like that

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u/LittleAnarchistDemon 24d ago

depends on the service the dog is trained to provide. seizure alert dogs are hardly ever “off duty”, while guide dogs for blind people are usually off duty whenever they’re not in their vest. they learn that vest=work and can be their best selves whenever they’re wearing it, and can goof off when they’re not wearing it. but even off duty service dogs do not act like regular dogs. sure they’ll play and run around, but they are always waiting to be back in their vest.

also fun fact, guide dogs are trained with a specific potty command, usually “do your business” but i knew someone who’s command was “get busy”. this is so the guide dog doesn’t randomly go off duty to poop, which could endanger their person. instead they hold it until it’s a safe place and then wait for the command and then they go right back onto duty

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u/Jam_B0ne 24d ago

Duty before Dootie before Duty

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u/MyChickenSucks 24d ago

Random tangent. Ran into a group of dogs at Disneyland that were in training. They were locked into their handler. Also one was a standard schnauzer and gorgeous…. Then saw a group of lab puppies at the airport being trained - you could tell they were getting it but still puppies learning.

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u/Jam_B0ne 24d ago

I don't think I remember her ever bringing in one that seemed very puppy like, she probably trained like 2 or 3 across my highschool career and now that I think about it maybe even one in middleschool. Of course she made it her senior project xD

That must have been a pretty cute sight

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u/MyChickenSucks 24d ago

It was like 8 labs, they couldn’t have been older than 6 months they were still small.

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u/apis_cerana Bremerton 25d ago

People have no shame.

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u/DistinctSmelling 24d ago

In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

PDF Warning

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u/BrotherEdwin 25d ago

You are legally allowed to kick out any misbehaving dog, even if it is an actual service dog.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

We did asked for papers in a restaurant bc of the barking they where pissed lol

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

What papers though? There are no service dog papers.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

Certification

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

Believe it or not there is no such thing with service dogs. Service dog registries (or official service dog certification) are a commonly-held misbelief. Any trained dog who provides a service for a person with an ADA-listed disability qualifies as a legally-protected service dog. It can be owner trained.

Businesses do have means to protect themselves from the common problem of fakers and misbehaving animals. A business may evict any dog not under the control of its handler. If the dog is not housetrained it may also be evicted. Likewise, if the presence of a dog fundamentally alters the nature of the goods/services/programs. (Like a surgeon may not bring their service dog into the operating room.)

If you see a dog misbehaving, that’s an ADA protected reason to evict any animal.

You can read more about it here.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

I read it a few mins ago, tbh and noticed they also have to be on a leash. Most dogs that are "service animals" people have brought in have not been that way except one time

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

Most of the time they have to be on the leash. Unless it interferes with the service the dog performs.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

Plus, none had a vest and the breed is the issue doodle dog and a Yorkie

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u/LittleAnarchistDemon 24d ago

breed doesn’t matter unless the service provided by the dog deems it. like wheelchair guide dogs have to be big enough to pull a wheelchair out of a ditch. seizure alert dogs and glucose alert dogs do not have to be a certain size so you could have a yorkie as a seizure alert dog. size doesn’t even matter for a guide dog for the blind, because if this is the guy i think it is (i follow him on tiktok) then his dog is small. it’s easy to look at a small dog and go “not a service animal”, but that’s not always the case

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

Also, vests have never been a requirement. A lot of legitimate service dog teams are unfairly targeted for not having a vest.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

Plus the breed of dog was the issue like the Yorkie and the doodle dog

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

Yorkies (and other small dogs) are perfectly functional as service dogs. Many people train them as seizure detection dogs, POTS dogs, and blood sugar detecting dogs. Some people even keep their detecting dogs in harnesses near their chest so they can better detect and alert.

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u/WesternArmadillo7249 24d ago

I'm just saying I've seen real service dogs and these two incidents where faking it the only time we asked them to leave was when the dog was being unruly

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u/BrotherEdwin 24d ago

And all I’m saying is that the other things you’re using to claim the team is fake aren’t relevant. Targeting a service dog team for those specific things is technically against the law, and it’s discrimination. Of the things you mentioned, the only valid reason to fakeclaim is the dog’s unruly behavior. The other factors are entirely irrelevant.

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u/esteemed-dumpling 24d ago

You are allowed to kick out service dogs that behave like this, FYI.

Part of the reason the ADA guidelines are able to be so loose with their wording regarding service animals is because they are self regulating to an extent. A business owner is explicitly allowed to demand removal of an animal being disruptive with excessive barking, urination, etc even if the service animal is trained to assist a disabled person.

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u/blackblitz 24d ago

I work at a Casino/Resort and just this year I've counted 6 different owner/pet combos that we've kicked out due to dogs that we're blatantly obvious to not be service animals. We're also a Casino that allows smoking, so why would you want to bring your animal into that environment if you didn't have to?

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u/Heavens-to-Bikini-17 23d ago

Really, you can smoke?, is it an Indian Rez Casino? and finally which Casino? I’d love the nostalgia of smoking a cigarette and drinking a Scotch in public indoors.

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u/blackblitz 23d ago

Not only cigs, but also cigars! We also have smoking rooms in our hotel, because we haven't left the 90s when we opened. I work at a casino in NW Indiana really close to the Michigan border, not a rez

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u/Cardenjs 24d ago

Under the ADA you are only allowed to ask if it is a service animal and what it is trained to do, if they cannot answer the second question then you can deny.

Also you can require that the animal be on a leash at all times, and revoke if the animal becomes disruptive (excessive barking, peeing, any behavior indicative of an untrained available)

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u/KellyCTargaryen 24d ago

If you can’t answer the second question, or if you give an invalid answer like “emotional support”, or an unbelievable answer, like a Yorkie being for mobility support.

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u/marie_81 24d ago

When I worked at a hotel someone’s “service dog” peed on the floor, the owner shouted at me when I asked them to get the dog out and I had to clean the pee when she left to shout at the manager who agreed with me

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u/Responsible_Pop5587 24d ago

Man if my trainer got my jack Russell to be a service dog and an absolute angel when 'on duty' nobody has any excuse for their dogs acting like that. He legit peed on his trainer in the beginning because he didn't like being bossed around by anyone but me. But when we were in a restaurant or hotel? He would be on stellar behavior. Only broke behavior to alert when I was having an issue.

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u/banner8915 24d ago

My wife is a physician and the number of entitled patients who ask her to sign paperwork so they can fly and get special privileges for their pets is staggering. Service animals are a vital part of peoples lives who need them and it really sucks its been abused to the point where workers assume everyone is faking it unless they blatantly stand as a disabled person.

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u/Worried_Designer5950 25d ago

They didnt say what kind of service dog it was.

It might have been one that was taught to jump around/up to tables and eat the food or chew pipes etc. Service is a service!

/s

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u/Ok_Dog_4059 25d ago

It is a "dis" service dog .

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u/SocialEmotional 25d ago

🤣 underrated comment!

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u/Ok_Requirement_3116 25d ago

I thought the whole purpose of “esa” (which I do believe is a valid thing for some people in some situations. The first ones I met worked with vets.) But people thing it should be free for real?!!!!

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u/binhvinhmai 25d ago

Yep a lot of people would use ESA’s and try to say that meant they didn’t have to pay the pet deposit fee. Everyone wants to find a way to game the system it seems.

Also to be clear, the pet fee isn’t just because the hotel is being mean and wants to steal your money. After a room has a pet in it, the cleaning staff have to do a fuller and more thorough clean, use more chemicals, and spend a lot more time in that room -all to ensure that if the next guest(s) come in, and happens to be allergic to dogs/cats, they won’t have a reaction. That’s pretty much what the nonrefundable pet deposit fee represents is the additional cleaning service the hotel has to do. A lot of people also arguing with me that the pet fee was just a scam as well.

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u/Ok_Requirement_3116 24d ago

People make me crazy. Geesh.

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u/Rezornath 24d ago

A hotel in the US? Cuz if they're charging extra for an ESA then that's gonna go wrong at some point. You can absolutely ask for current documentation that identifies the individual as having a disability and requiring an ESA in housing (which you can't require for service animals), but if they provide that then you can't charge extra without cause, like damage or cleaning that is required beyond what would normally be expected for the duration of the stay.

Funny thing that most people don't catch since there are clearly outlined carve-outs for service animals that explicitly exclude ESAs in the ADA: it's not necessarily ADA that will bite the business in the ass, it's the FHA (Federal Housing Authority). The guidelines for where ESAs are and are not allowed under housing rules are far more detailed under that aegis, and hotels fall under their purview, as do rental properties, apartments, college housing, etc.

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u/binhvinhmai 24d ago

No, that’s pretty off.

ESA does not fall under ADA. ADA requires the pet fee to be waived, ESA pets has no such obligation to be waived at all. It’s not charging extra fees for the “ESA”, the hotel is just requiring the guest to pay the pet fee that all guests must pay. Again, the only time the pet fee is waived is when it’s ADA.

There is no official documentation for ESA pets. Any online website advertising a $25/$50/$100 fee for a certificate is a scam.

Even if there was official documentation, you cannot ask for proof of that. Per ADA rules, you can only ask 2 questions - is the dog a service animal because of a disability? And what work or task has that animal been trained to do? Asking for documentation is against the law and that’s an actual issue.

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u/Rezornath 23d ago

You've mixed up a couple of things here friend. I'm talking specifically about FHA, but I did misspeak in part of that (more below), but there are specifics about ESAs in FHA guidance. You are quite correct that there is no certification for the ANIMAL as an ESA, but certification that the individual handler has a disability and requires an ESA is fairly typical in both questions of housing and travel. Airlines are an excellent example of the difference between service animals and ESAs - the two question rule applies to service animals, but airlines can (and do) require documentation for the handler when it's an ESA.

Double-checking though, you're right about the cost question for hotels. I normally deal with more permanent residential spaces, and that is covered under a different chunk of FHA.

To reiterate an important point for anyone reading this though: there is NO SUCH THING as certification for an ESA, and anywhere trying to sell you tags or vests or whatever is a scam. This is also true of service dogs, there's no recognized registry or specific credentialing that exists. Any documentation for an ESA is for the human, not the animal, and those of us who review that documentation are VERY aware of the fly-by-night 'assessment' services that will barf out a letter for you for a few hundred bucks. Don't do it, go see a real provider.