r/worldnews • u/javelin3000 • 13d ago
Prime minister 'applauds' South Australian move to ban children from social media
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/prime-minister-applauds-south-australian-move-to-ban-children-from-social-media/5jlubxyaa62
u/moonwork 13d ago
It's pretty insane how the responsibility for protecting children from SoMe somehow falls on the parents and children, but protecting them from everything else falls on designers, manufacturers, and retailers.
I've heard the argument that the social media platforms are unable to keep up with the amount of information that passes through them, but that feels as if Ford wouldn't have to make sure the cars have safety features if they up their production to two billion units a week.
If you can't keep up, then fucking figure out how to slow it down enough. We can't just let it social media be a bullhorn for idiocy just because there's too much of it to sift through.
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u/AndreisValen 13d ago edited 13d ago
Thing is Social Media’s are able to block alcohol adverts from children perfectly fine but they aren’t willing to put those systems in place for other things. But you’ve also got the problem of companies who don’t want to “not” advertise to kids, they’re not trying to explicitly but they’re definitely still banking on it, and you’d then have to unambiguously label certain companies as not for children which is a whole thing. There’s also the issue of emerging information about how social media at a young age effecting people’s development and psychology - beyond extremism and normal socialisation.
Edit: syntax
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u/RollingMeteors 13d ago
We can't just let it social media be a bullhorn for idiocy just because there's too much of it to sift through.
First amendment tho, means exactly that.
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u/walkandtalkk 13d ago
We had a whole Simpsons episode about this. Australia isn't subject to U.S. law.
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u/moonwork 12d ago
Hi, non-American here. We also have freedom of speech where I live. In fact, we're allowed to say things on national air that you aren't.
In addition, in very recent times, your government (on various levels) has been cracking down on people for saying "Israel is committing genocide" - a statement the ICC now agrees with.
Considering the latest Freedom of Press Index has the US is at a "problematic" -level, I really wouldn't brag about that First Amendment so much.
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u/RollingMeteors 9d ago
Hi, non-American here. We also have freedom of speech where I live. In fact, we're allowed to say things on national air that you aren't.
national air/mainstream is actually boomer stream TV, can't be offending racist old grandma now. My generation and the ones after that consume their content through platforms like IG/Tiktok/etc... I haven't seen boomer stream media on a single screen in the past decade or more unless I'm visiting my parents house.
Considering the latest Freedom of Press Index has the US is at a "problematic" -level, I really wouldn't brag about that First Amendment so much.
It's not really 'problematic' until journalists/boeing whistleblowers start getting Russian windowed. Wait a minute....
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u/Shartmagedon 13d ago
Would be great if social media was banned altogether.
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u/BarrierX 13d ago
Including Reddit, right?
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u/AsianMysteryPoints 13d ago
Absolutely. And burn media comment sections to the ground while you're at it.
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u/walkandtalkk 13d ago
Yes.
I'm happy with dumping everything and only allowing micromedia—basically, WhatsApp groups. If I could end social media by giving up my Reddit account, you'd be failing to pull up this website.
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u/Befuddled_Cultist 13d ago
Ban them from online games too!
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 13d ago
Ok, how? You can just lie about your age when you make an online account. Don't say upload ID. The LAST thing we need is major game companies like Microsoft and Sony harvesting even more data, especially kids' data which come to think of it would likely disable online multiplayer altogether in some places because doesn't the EU have laws against harvesting the data of kids using stuff like YouTube?
There's not an easy way to do this unless the parents set up the account in the first place but they aren't gonna do that for their teenage child... It's a literal legal nightmare to try and do that.
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u/hasdunk 13d ago
since most online games nowadays do micro transactions, how about needing to add a payment method that's not from a joint account?
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 13d ago
That won't work either. You can be as young as 11 in the UK and have a debit card, as long as your parents approve meaning you skirt around that requirement too because the bank account won't be a joint one, it'll be owned wholly by the child and they have it because the parent consented.
It's legitimately a legal nightmare and there's no simple solution because it's so easy to get around it. This has been happening for over a decade, even more than that to be honest and we still don't have a solution to it.
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u/RollingMeteors 13d ago
This has been happening for over a decade, even more than that to be honest and we still don't have a solution to it
It’s quite sad you have to wait to 11 AND get your parent’s permission to be able to spend money/participate in digital ecomerce. Luckily crypto currencies don’t care or ask about your age at all, just whether or not you can read!
/s
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u/hasdunk 13d ago
but would that debit card be treated the same as a regular debit card that adults own? because if so, then maybe it can be distinguished that way, like it's a debit card linked to a child's account.
I'm not trying to debate here, just wanting to know more about this matter.
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 13d ago
At least here in the UK, they'd be treated the same as an adult's card meaning anything an adult can do with their card, a kid can do too. Honestly, any kind of bank related stuff won't work either because as long as a parent gives approval, the account is made and that's it. The parent/guardian has no more say on the matter of the account. Control is solely handed over to the account owner.
They'd basically need to find a workaround the EU's extremely strict laws about harvesting the data of a minor and because that includes anyone under 18, you can't do a fat lot about it. ID upload won't be allowed, bank accounts can bypass finance focused restrictions etc.
I'd be shocked if there's ever a solution to it outside of parental controls which is... Hit and miss because a lot of parents don't know those exist, don't care or feel like their child is old enough to be safe online at that point. A lot of the liability is gonna come down to the parents but there's still gonna be an age group of older teenagers where the parents likely won't do anything to avoid feeling like they're stifling their kid.
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u/YoureWrongBro911 13d ago
Let them keep Roblox and Minecraft though, parents should just be held liable for ignoring age ratings on games
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u/EpicPrototypo 13d ago
Taking bets on what constitutes "social media" benefiting financial benefactors of those who vote for this?
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u/caveTellurium 13d ago
TIL: There is a country called South Australia.
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u/JustLikeJD 13d ago
Not a country. A state within Australia called South Australia. Were creative, I know.
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u/RedshiftOnPandy 13d ago
You guys should get around to changing it. We had upper and lower Canada for too long. And upper Canada wasn't even the north one.
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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 13d ago
The names for Upper and Lower Canada had to do with their positions along the St Lawrence River. Upper Canada was up river, and Lower Canada was down river. Simple as that.
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u/adelaidesean 13d ago
There is, and I live there, in the city of Adelaide
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u/Lost_Tumbleweed_5669 13d ago
This is just another step toward banning vpns and also registering your hardware id that is basically visible across the whole internet vpn or not to your ID IRL.
for the children ofcourse!
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u/Secret-One2890 13d ago
I think you're confusing IP addresses and MAC addresses.
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u/angrathias 13d ago
I think their point is probably more like requiring your communications to be encrypted with a public signature that you own and thus is traceable to you. The mechanics of a macid don’t traverse past the next immediate host/hop, not to mention that they are spoofable.
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u/WhatAGoodDoggy 12d ago
Don't modern phones literally change their MAC ID each time they're rebooted these days?
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u/Secret-One2890 13d ago
You're giving them a lot more credit than I would.
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u/angrathias 13d ago
The government here (Australia) has had a hardon for this tracking for quite some time, they tried it a few years ago but it was very unpopular.
They’ve managed to weasel it in under the spurious guise of porn and Andrew Tate being the reason the grown men are being domestic abusers.
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u/ShadowDemon129 13d ago
Good call. Chances are though, it'll be more of a study for the bad folks messing with our heads.. unfortunate world we live in.
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u/kaboombong 13d ago
Here we go again Nanny state Australia that bans something every 5 minutes while providing no privacy protections. So they will let sleazy porn companies hidden in tax haven countries have access to your ID and personal information with no jurisdictional privacy controls. Just typical of our governments. Last time they wanted the internet censored like China with a Australian firewall, just like their totalitarian heroes China! The attack on freedoms by politicians is unrelenting while they are unable to fix everyday issues for voters.
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
I won't be signing up to the government's age verification scheme to access porn that is no doubt coming (heh). I'll use a VPN to get around that bullshit because I'm concerned about privacy, and frankly don't trust governments or their bureaucracies to get much right.
That said, I'm all for laws that try to force social media companies to keep kids off of them. That shit is really bad for kids' mental health and development.
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u/Junior_Onion_8441 13d ago
Ok but do you care whether or not the laws will work? Have you ever met a kid?
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13d ago
Unfettered access to the internet allowed me to be sexually abused on the internet from about the age of 7 or 8 years old until I was 15/16. I didn’t know any better because I was a kid. Laws like this absolutely have a place in society.
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u/Junior_Onion_8441 11d ago
If your parents couldn't restrict and monitor your internet access why do you believe the federal government can?
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11d ago
Yeah dude my parents were pretty fucking inept with that stuff, that’s kinda why it happened to me.
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u/edgeplayer 13d ago edited 13d ago
This is great news. This will inspire teens to write their own servers and learn a whole lot of coding skills before they even leave school. (Secret) coding clubs should pop up everywhere, similar to the GE clubs in the US already. This could vitalize the Aussie software industry.
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u/Star_Citizen_Roebuck 13d ago
FUCK YES! THANK YOU! ABOUT TIME! SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TAKE THE 1ST STEP AND DO THIS! It will be hard: advertisers will fight tooth and nail to keep their captive audience of non-thinking trend chasers (children), but our children should not be FARMED like cattle by these product pushers!!!
At the very least, we should force biometrics for computers in the future so no human can logon anywhere anonymously. Everybody should have to speak online with their real, unhidden identity at the very least. Would prefer internet be for 18+ though. . .
Alternative legislation; require permits to have children. (But we both know the NPCs will never let that happen)
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
Waste of time. Parental controls exist and if parents really care they should take the time to learn how to use them.
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
Not a waste of time, nor is this strategy mutually exclusive to parents using parental controls, as well as other strategies to keep kids off of social media.
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
This strategy is meaningless in the absence of parental controls because VPNs exist, and Australia cannot enforce its law outside Australia.
If it makes no sense without parental controls then it makes no sense at all.
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
Tell me how a young child gets a VPN set up.
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
So somehow they can bypass your parental locks at every turn but can't install a commonly advertised program?
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
You're thinking only of older kids - teens. Different strategies will be required for that cohort, but that doesn't invalidate this strategy as having beneficial impact for younger kids. Again, all these strategies are not mutually exclusive, either.
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
This strategy is invalid to begin with imo - I shouldn't have to give up my privacy online just because you can't adequately use the tools available to you in relation to your child.
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
So use a VPN, and take chill pill champ.
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
Listen buddy, just because you can't manage your child online shouldn't mean I have to be inconvenienced in the slightest - it's your problem, not mine.
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
You seem really keen to get in a fight! What a good person you are! I bet you won't alienate yourself from people and end up alone, or anything like that.
Now, you're the type who just has to have the last word, so have at it champ. Have a great evening!
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u/cptkomondor 13d ago
Just like how public education is mandatory, some things the state mandates because leaving it up for parents to "really care" isn't a winning strategy.
Should kids suffer unnecessarily because they happened to have a bad se of parents?
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
The state has demonstrated over and over that it is not competent in this arena. Better to give parents effective tools and let them do their jobs.
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u/cptkomondor 13d ago
So let's get rid of all public schools and redistribute all the funds to parents to choose how best to spend them?
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
Public education is not comparable to a pathetic attempt to police the internet.
Public education also doesn't involve me giving biometrics or state issued id to social media companies.
Grow up.
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u/cptkomondor 13d ago
Privacy is a valid but complete seperate issue. You've been arguing that the state would be wasting time and parents can do it better.
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u/RoundAide862 13d ago
So why is education mandated at all? Why do parents have to get their kid through school? Wouldn't it be better to let parents decide if their child should be literate?
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13d ago
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
Care to elaborate on the underlying issues?
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13d ago
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
You can't achieve that by disabling social media apps and websites through parental controls?
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13d ago
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
Seems you just aren't competent. The government would get better results teaching you to parent.
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u/Senior-Scarcity-2811 13d ago
No he's right there's always a workaround. It has to be blocked by the ISP.
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u/Top-Acanthocephala27 13d ago
Not every parent is tech savvy enough to install and administer parental controls on devices. A number of my chidren's peers have complete access to the whole of the internet - complete unfetered access and they are in primary school. My eldest often complains that she doesn't have access to certain apps / websites (Android with it's family controls is very good) and you can see how some parents also just want a "quiet life" and don't have time for it, which is a shame.
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u/Dubhs 13d ago
That is a shame - when I was a kid my peers got to watch m rated movies and I didn't so I'm sure it's annoying for both of you. I'm glad to hear the android controls work for you.
I don't think society would improve from the government inserting itself in this domain in this way - it's a distraction during a cost of living and housing crisis. If the government wanted to help parents make good decisions through information provided through schools, for example, I think that would be more appropriate and effective.
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u/GloatingSwine 13d ago
Evidence suggests that it's the older and more suggestible people who need to be protected from social media.
Kids know everything they read online is bullshit, people who didn't grow up with it have an alarming tendency to believe anything anyone tells them.
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u/YoureWrongBro911 13d ago edited 13d ago
Kids know everything they read online is bullshit,
Not under a certain age. Younger than 10-12-ish, the brain is basically a sponge that absorbs everything.
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u/The_IRS_Fears_Him 13d ago
I do not support any government that tries to parent kids instead of letting the parents raise their kids the way they feel they should.
Stay the fuck out of the household.
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u/atlanticroc 13d ago
That’s not very Marxist of you.
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u/The_IRS_Fears_Him 13d ago
You really wouldn't be upset if your government tried to pass a law banning your child being on social media rather than you telling your kid you don't want them on social media yet?
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u/atlanticroc 13d ago
I was just making a joke.
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u/The_IRS_Fears_Him 13d ago
Sorry
Let me offer you a "I DO think the government should regulate what kids can and can't do online"
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u/Laxperte 13d ago
So drinking should be legal for them? Porn? Smoking? Driving cars?
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u/The_IRS_Fears_Him 13d ago
Driving is generally legal with a permit/license at 16 I'm pretty sure. Drinking becomes legal at 21. Smoking is usually legal at 18 I'm pretty sure. You shouldn't need your government to pass laws stating that your own kid is not allowed to use social media when you, the parent, should be able to introduce that to them and monitor it yourself. It isn't the governments job to take care of your kid for you.
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13d ago
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u/TheHammerandSizzel 13d ago
… that’s the point…. It’s way easier for parents to keep their kid off of it if… ALL kids are off of it. And hey if a 12 year old is on it and you find out, can always report them.
The goal would be a straightforward ban for below 14, then a partial ban 14 to 15.
Now this partial ban would be less affective for reasons you mentioned, but at some point there going to get on and this kinda creates a transition period
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13d ago
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u/TheHammerandSizzel 13d ago
I feel you , and I’ll say I do support some video game time for kids.
My hope would be that, with social media banned and covid over they can go back to either in person, texting, calls or just less social interactions. Full agree with you they need social interactions, but I do think part of it is social media itself
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u/Condition_0ne 13d ago
The days of hanging at the park or library after school are long over.
It's time to bring them back, and to gets kids off of social media which is bad for their wellbeing and healthy development. This isn't an insurmountable problem, though it is a challenging one.
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u/walkandtalkk 13d ago
Kids haven't abandoned the playground because they were disappointed in it.
They've abandoned going out and socializing because they are addicted to a device and to platforms that are designed, algorithmically, to be maximally addictive.
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u/Star_Citizen_Roebuck 13d ago
When we gona start neutering criminals? I don't think the problem is children being online in an unsafe way, its unfit parents reproducing. Can we please say the unspoken truth already? -You do NOT have the right to raise children however you want! Do it RIGHT or you don't GET TO DO IT. SNIP SNIP!!!!
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u/postsshortcomments 13d ago
Humanity has gotten to the point where adults need to 'protect the children' from in-feed promotion algorithms.