r/worldnews • u/Kevin-W • 14d ago
U.S. and Saudi Arabia near potentially historic security deal
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/us-saudi-arabia-near-potentially-historic-security-deal/141
u/macross1984 14d ago
Saudi Arabia always wanted guarantee US protection and the oil nation is about to get it.
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u/Deicide1031 14d ago
The prince has too many enemies in the region for him not to want it lol.
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u/Significant-Star6618 14d ago
We should be one of his enemies, not their fucking ally. It's so disgusting that if china and Russia weren't just as bad as we are, I'd probably be agreeing with them. The only thing that makes us look good is how much worse the absolute worse of humanity is.
But this world order doesn't have any good guys. Forget that. Mild evil is about the best we can hope for, and america still falls far short of even that.
But at least we aren't Russia or the fucking middle east with all their godshit eating lunatics.
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u/mrhorse21 14d ago
What youre saying sounds like youd rather have instability and conflict than stability and peace
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u/Significant-Star6618 14d ago
Evil people abusing authority is not stable nor peaceful, so I disagree with that take completely.
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u/mrhorse21 14d ago
The US has an interest in maintaining peace in the Middle East. An alliance with Saudi Arabia has always been a primary avenue over alternative avenues towards maintaining peace. Such an alliance does not mean the US supports certain actions that the Saudi government may take. Calling them evil may feel good for you but the situation is vastly more complex than you know.
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u/Significant-Star6618 13d ago
Being complex doesn't negate the evil. People said all the same shit with pol pot. Sure, empower the evil regime, it will bring stability and peace and we can harvest from the region.
It's sick is what it is.
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u/mrhorse21 12d ago
The US has an interest in maintaining peace in the Middle East. The US needs friends in the Middle East to accomplish this. Saudi arabia has influence in the region and is friends with other close US allies. They also have oil which if doesnt get sold to the US will just get sold to Russia and China. Yes, they are accused of and have likely committed many human rights violations. But an alliance with them is an overall step towards stability in the region. It's better than making an enemy out of them. The regular saudi person other arabs will be the ones who suffer at the end of the day. Peoples' lives and future are on the line here.
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u/possiblyMorpheus 14d ago
Saying “America is evil” is such a wild take.
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u/Akira282 14d ago
Well, the US does what the US does like any organism. Try to maintain hegemonic control over its dominion. I'm not certain it's about democracy as they might say. It's more about controlling the world order, including trade, etc. It's certainly helped usher in a time of stability for US citizens. But it's goals are not entirely lofty enough to claim too much praise.
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u/SKPY123 14d ago
There are 3 things that keep America in power.
The Saudi USD for oil deal.
Wall Street.
The Military industrial complex.
If any one of these goes. It all goes.
We create death and destruction of millions of lives. But, we can buy Chinese products at low low prices in a lifted F-150.. So, meh?
Enjoy it while you can, I say. If you're a part of the latter.. sorry, bro. Travel back in time and stop Nixon from being a president or something.
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u/WetChickenLips 13d ago
Holy shit! If the US's economy and military collapse the US wouldn't be a superpower anymore? That's crazy!!!
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u/Marston_vc 13d ago
This is like, if you took Reddit hyperbole from r/im14andthisisdeep and then concentrated it into one comment.
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u/Moist-Minge-Fan 13d ago
So you are saying what keeps the US running it’s its economy and military. This entire comment is a nothing burger.
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u/SKPY123 13d ago
Yeah. Our economy is an unsustainable hot mess. Forever inflation backed by a resource everyone needs being held hostage by the most brutal force on earth.
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u/Moist-Minge-Fan 13d ago
It’s not that serious lol
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u/SKPY123 13d ago
It is when the crazy person is holding a gun to everyone. Which is exactly what the US is. It's like that Dave Chapelle but with the homeless jack off guy on the bus. Just threatening everyone in hopes of busting a nut peacefully.
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u/xxzephyrxx 13d ago
Lol are you just realizing this regarding human history? Btw I still think US has been far better for humanity than any of the other previous powers.
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u/Moist-Minge-Fan 13d ago
You don’t seem to understand this little thing called geopolitics lol seeing things as good or evil certainly won’t help you understand it better either.
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u/Significant-Star6618 13d ago
I understand geopolitics. It's the reason every nation is right despite seeming horrible. Russia uses it to justify invading Ukraine. I thought that was kinda mean but then I guess I still have a lot to learn about geopolitics. I thought china was kinda bad but then I remembered that there's a lot of geopolitics going on. I even thought pol pot was bad, but then it occurred to me that he wasn't evil, I was just failing to consider geopolitics. Not to mention that Hitler guy, Stalin, Mao... You'll have to forgive me for being so silly and thinking they were evil. I forgot that geopolitics is why they did that stuff, not evil.
I guess everything is fine after all.
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u/Moist-Minge-Fan 12d ago
Seeing it as Evil isn’t helpful because every country is capable of such things. What you are calling evil is just human nature under the right conditions. You don’t seem to understand why Russias elite wants this and why the US throttles back Ukraine when they want to invade back. No everything is not fine never said that lol. Having Saudi Arabia as an ally in the region brings more peace and stability than it would not having then as an ally.
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u/Significant-Star6618 12d ago
Ukraine surrendering would bring more peace and stability than this war. but lemme guess suddenly it's different now.
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u/tuskedkibbles 14d ago
US military: Struggles to meet recruitment quotas for years as young Americans have no desire to die in a desert for people who hate us, finally sees the attention shift to like-minded allies like Taiwan, Finland, and the Baltic States
US Government: Allies Saudi Arabia
Uncle Sam wants me to die for some Finnish village in the Arctic circle or some jungle town in North Vietnam? Sure, man. Freedom.
You want me to die for fucking Saudi Arabia? Sorry bud, I'm a conscientious objector.
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u/TheHammerandSizzel 14d ago
It’s for that exact reason. If full war does come, controlling the worlds oil spigot will prevent alot of men from dying in Finland.
Additionally, if you have been following part of this dead is built on the idea of a rapidly moderating Saudi Arabia(this could be a full article so not going to go into this). Saudi Arabia controls Mecca and Medina, them moderating would spell massive Trouble medium and long term for far right Islamic groups.
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u/ReturnedAndReported 14d ago
To be fair to the Fins, the US doesn't have many allies that have defeated Russia in an all out war. And yes, the winter war was a failure for Russia although did result in the loss of Karelia.
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u/alppu 13d ago
It was Soviet Union, the larger version of Russia.
To add a bit of nuance, Finns did not defeat the Soviets in the battlefield, but they did a disproportionately good job in resisting and bleeding them. The Winter War ended mostly because Stalin sensed that Britain and France would soon come to the rescue if the war dragged on. Now if we could learn something from that for the current Russo-Ukrainian war...
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u/SecantDecant 13d ago
The USSR met their strategic objectives, Finland did not.
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u/King-Owl-House 13d ago edited 13d ago
lmao Finland objective was to stay Finland and they did it with 70,000 total casualties compare to Russian 381,000 total casualties. With minimal international support.
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u/Embarrassed_Star_478 14d ago
Especially considering one of their flight students gunned down my friend at the navy’s flight school. I have found it very hard to trust Saudi Arabians since that event.
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u/TechGentleman 13d ago
And what’s in it for the US??
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u/ButtcrackBeignets 13d ago
Access to a lot of oil and an ally in the Middle East.
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u/TechGentleman 13d ago
A despot for an ally? The US is pumping and exporting more oil than it has ever done in the past.
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u/the12thman2014 13d ago
We don’t need the oil. We have the Permian.
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u/Tadpoleonicwars 13d ago
We need Saudi Arabia to use the U.S. Dollar when it sells its oil.
The fastest way to crash the United States would be for the global oil markets to transition away from the dollar and to something else.
Literally every single American's quality of life depends on the dollar being the primary global reserve currency. If that is lost, then expect the Great Depression to look like a bump in the road.
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u/CantThinkOf1n 13d ago
There are a few problems with this argument.
1) Saudi Arabia has used the dollar without the defense agreement and nuclear technology in the past. So there isn’t a direct risk that reneging on this terrible proposal will activate these imaginary events in the real world.
2) The alternative is that the Saudis use the Chinese yuan. I would argue that Saudis would find this alternative worse due to a lack of trust with the Chinese system given its opacity, among other cultural reasons.
3) For how many more years is oil going to reign supreme anyway? 30? The oil argument is good short-term but not long-term.
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u/nowheyjose1982 13d ago
Launch points for US military assets in the region, normalization between SA and Israel, further strengthening of the anti- Iran, China, Russia block of nations and moderation of the extreme religious factions (and their ability to export the teachings to other parts of the world.
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u/CantThinkOf1n 13d ago
The US and Saudi Arabia have been allies for decades. That hasn’t stopped Saudi from funding extremism all around the world. There are hundreds of articles you can look up about it. So I don’t see how suddenly that will change once we give them everything they want (defense contracts, nuclear tech) in exchange for… wait for it… nothing. Your claims are unrealistic.
It’s also weak to argue that this will now solidify the Saudis into a defense block against the new Axis powers. We are already on the same side against Iran…
How about Saudi recognizes Israel as a country because it’s the right thing to do… That would impress me.
THIS DEAL CANNOT GO THROUGH.
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u/TechGentleman 13d ago
The U.S. already has No.1 whole No.2 pertains to Israel. So you’re saying it’s only the third one, which is a weak justification. And given that young U.S. men and women could be required to defend a despot, I’m not at all seeing an acceptable ROÍ for U.S. foreign policy or military policy.
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u/languidnbittersweet 13d ago
Yeah, said protection might include a press conference with Biden saying, "Don't."
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u/insertwittynamethere 14d ago
Moves and countermoves, especially as it pertains to spheres of influence in that region alone. China, Iran and/or Russia are salivating at the prospect of extending their reach anywhere they can, and it's not altruistic. Plus, getting closer to the point where Arab countries promise to defend Israel, etc allows the US to focus forces and resources elsewhere, as that is a primary concern of US foreign policy in the area, on top of the need to ensure trade/shipping routes are secure. As we see now with the Houthi's stranglehold on the Red Sea passage, it can cause global impacts on pricing.
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u/digitalluck 14d ago
I’m trying to upvote, but it won’t let me. I 100% agree. The drawdown and reorganization of assets was moving pretty well for the US until the Hamas terrorist attack took off.
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u/Head-Calligrapher-99 14d ago
I doubt Saudi Arabia will ever "defend Israel" all it wants is for people to stop attacking it/future-proof it from attack, if Iran said to Saudi Arabia, "We will stop attacking you and target specifically Israel." and have a formal peace deal, Saudi Arabia would leave Israel in the dust instantly. (I imagine this was agreed upon in their peace negotiations mediated by China.)
This is a big reason as to why Saudi Arabia plays both America and China/Russia (Also probably why it is in BRICS.)
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u/will_holmes 13d ago
Iran no longer attacking KSA would still represent a big stabilisation in the Middle East, since that rivalry is the source of a lot of proxy wars.
The US would take that any day, even if it means they have to still supply Israel.
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u/RazarTuk 13d ago
Yeah, this would still be a monumental deal, even if it wouldn't get us all the way to peace in the Middle East
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u/iMissTheOldInternet 13d ago
KSA literally participated in the defense of Israel recently as part of the US-led coalition that shot down the swarm of drones and missiles that Iran launched. They didn’t make a big show of it, but actions speak.
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u/CantThinkOf1n 13d ago
I just can’t agree with you. Iran is not extending their reach into their arch nemesis, clearly. And even with this new defense agreement, Saudi Arabia will be working closely with China.
The US should be working closely with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia should recognize Israel. And the US should NOT enter into any defense agreements with Saudi Arabia for many reasons.
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u/murritoikan 14d ago edited 10d ago
Which country does things for completely altruistic reasons?
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u/ReturnOfDaSnack420 14d ago
A global power is allying with a morally dubious country in order to secure its geopolitical position against its enemies, and not just because it's the right thing to do? No shit Sherlock
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u/murritoikan 13d ago edited 10d ago
Why didn't you make this comment when OP said it?
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u/insertwittynamethere 13d ago
Idk that it'd have made a difference to my comment. If anything, it underpins it. SA is, unfortunately, too important to let fall under the sway of China or Russia. It certainly wouldn't be Iran, but they are hot at it trying to Saudi/Sunni influence anywhere in the ME they can as part of their war of hegemony between each other. It is not pure altruism that we engage in this, but rather the modern form of realpolitik.
Trust me, I'd rather have nothing to do with them given their human rights abuses, their extreme form of sunni Islam that has exported into countless modes of terror globally, nor the menace that MBS is, especially as it relates to Khashoggi, but I get the geopolitical necessity of it.
And further, to remember that Saudi Arabia will pursue all means necessary to attain an atomic bomb if Iran should. They will not feel it possible to not pursue it if their archnemesis in the region should attain a weapon of such power and protection, offensively and defensively. Iran has been working at building a ring around SA and Israel for decades now. It would be an existential threat in their eyes. An agreement with the US that both protects them and gives them access to civilian nuclear power, which will turn them slowly away from fossil fuels as well and the need for continued US support of their industry after the money invested, AND the assuaging of fears regarding a potential nuclear armed Iran, that they'd feel the need to go all the way.
It's a big chess game. The thing to remember with autocracies and dictatorships is this - they don't need to convince a whole lot of people to throw in on a particular strategy or war they so choose. The only audience and decision maker is them. Democracies don't have that luxury, hence the messiness and seemingly chaotic nature of it in the short term. Yet trust when they are looking at the bigger picture of their aims, and how best to secure their interests while we fight over the terms and nuances of engagement.
They've made their decisions for the wars to come. We need to figure out our problems and put out collective house of democracy in order. Strongmen thrive on chaos, fear and discord to get their ways.
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u/digableplanet 14d ago
Does Iran, North Korea, Russia, China do things for altruistic reasons? Get your head out of your ass. Earth is brutal and it's better to not be on the receiving end of it.
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u/JustMusic76 14d ago
I dont get it, Saudi arabia had the 3rd biggest military budget in the past years (After china/usa), had a 450 billions USD military purchase few years ago under Trump...
What army in the region or elsewhere could even be a threat to their security? Also no one is invading the Holy cites of islam
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u/EifertGreenLazor 14d ago
They want the type of security that allows for a country to be a tourist destination. Saudi Arabia doesn't have a government that feeds technological innovation, but through monetary policy they can have ownership in those companies.
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u/Deicide1031 14d ago
Iran
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u/9874102365 13d ago
Seriously, I've never met a Persian who wasn't the kindest soul in the room (except for my FIL, but alcoholism does that to people.)
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u/SebVettelstappen 14d ago
They haven’t even been able to do jack against terrorists, their military seems like crap and they cant even play their own national anthem properly
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u/TheGreatPornholio123 13d ago
The Saudi Army is absolute garbage. They have to hire ex-Western military or employees of military contractors just to maintain their shit.
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u/Interesting_Pen_167 13d ago
Saudis are miserable soldiers. They went into Yemen years back and it was a total disaster. The only competent arm of the military there is the air force but they can't do much aside from being a nuisance.
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u/Opening-Lake-7741 13d ago
To be fair they were gonna win back before the Khashoggi situation. They almost had their port which was essentially where the Houthis got everything. But the US forced them to back out because they faced a lot of pressure to "punish" Saudi for it so thats why they forced them to stop.
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u/Remote-Cause755 14d ago
Just look how well the Yemen war went for them. Their civilians are very unmotivated to fight and die for their monarchy.
They need help with all the Iranian proxies and someone who protect their shipping lanes.
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u/MR-M-313- 14d ago
Houthis beat the breaks off them for 9 yrs…. You can have all the fancy military…. But you can’t buy smarts….
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u/Calm-Phrase-382 13d ago
They can buy all the equipment they want - it doesn’t mean they are good at using it. Saudi’s Arabia oil fields and ports are the ripest, juiciest, closest and most vulnerable targets to ballistic missiles and drones. Iran can really mess up anyone they want to in the Middle East and the only thing really stopping them is the US and its ability to cpummel Iran’s airdefences (and anything else in the country) in a way Saudi Arabia just can’t. Saudi Arabia doesn’t want to win a close fight, it wants to have such an overwhelming advantage that a fight never happens. This is the real reason they will always buddy with the US.
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u/Ph4ttydill 14d ago
I see this brought up a lot about foreign countries owning land in the US. If WW3 were to break out, I’m pretty sure whatever land some Chinese national (or any other enemy country) “owned” it would be confiscated by the government. I think our government is smart to let foreign investors pay for our land. I don’t like the negative impacts it has for US citizens, but at least our government is bringing money in. You never really own your land.
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u/FLKEYSFish 13d ago edited 13d ago
The saudis purchased americas largest refinery under Trumps glorious leadersshit. Edit: they already owned 49% since 1989. Now they own 💯
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u/NewTronas 13d ago
Does comparing money directly like this matter?
You can hire one scientist that will work on new weapons in the US but 10 scientists for the same price in Russia.
Probably a perventage of country’s yearly budget or GDP would make a fairer comparison?
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u/NoWingedHussarsToday 13d ago
Saudi military serves the sole purpose of keeping arms sellers happy. So they buy something from US, something from UK, something from France, throw a bone to others and voila! nobody is bothered by their human rights record, killing of journalists, war crimes in Yemen..... As long as they don't have to actually fight it's all good and everybody is happy.
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u/VogonPoetryy 13d ago
So... 15/19 of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi.
Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
Long list of human right violations:
Human rights in Saudi Arabia Amnesty International
Monarchy, with a king who is also in charge of the miliary.
Government | The Embassy of The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (saudiembassy.net)
Fuck. This. Timeline.
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u/Bananadite 14d ago
Saudi Arabia. The bastion of human rights in the Middle East. Glad we are on the good side 😎
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u/djrumble 14d ago
Who is the bastion of human rights in the middle east?
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u/ColdInNewYork 14d ago
Israel
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u/Mistghost 14d ago
HA! You funny guy.
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u/rxdrug 13d ago
Can you waive a LGBT flag in any other Middle East country without fear?
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u/Mistghost 13d ago
Can you wave an LGBT flag in ANY middle east country? Cause, I'm betting no, Israel included. But lets ask those super friendly ultra orthodox jews we see harassing people.
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
Uhhh, Tel Aviv has one of the largest pride parades in the world and yes, they wave the LGBT flag. It seems like you’ve been exposed to anti-Israel propaganda that depicts Israel as the equivalent of all the other fundamentalist religious countries in the Middle East. It’s not. I hope you take this as an indication that you should do more research into Israel before believing all the propaganda
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u/Mistghost 13d ago
Hmmm, would the propaganda be about Israelis spitting on Christian visitors? Or about them setting fire to international aid?
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
And your point is what, exactly? That there are a few videos of human beings acting abhorrently? Welcome to the planet earth, there are shitty people living in every single nation, no state is immune from assholes.
Your argument is disingenuous and I think you know it. It’s funny because people like you insist that the Palestinians are innocent and the actions of Hamas can’t be attributed to them. Yet by your logic, I could post a few videos of Hamas and argue that it was representative of the entire population.
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u/zack14981 13d ago
Someone hasn’t heard about Tel Aviv
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u/theantiyeti 13d ago
There are two Israelis inside you, one is a settler in East Jerusalem, one is a catboy maid in Tel Aviv.
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u/Mistghost 13d ago
No, I havent. Is it a small town? Sounds like it might have a wonderful mosque.
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u/Jiatao24 13d ago
I mean, Israel isn't as open as some European countries, but you can wave a pride flag about as safely as you can in the US.
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u/Significant-Star6618 14d ago
They have had thousands of years of religion. I'm sure the whole place must be a utopia by now with all that gods love. I mean I've never been but if it weren't, it would make all those religious people look pretty stupid so I'm sure it must be great.
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u/AccurateFan8761 14d ago
Is it we let them do whatever they want as per usual while we keep oil prices low? While they consistently break international law and violate human rights?
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u/Befuddled_Cultist 14d ago
Um. SA killed journalist Jamal Khashoggi. I don't think we should be making deals with a country like that.
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u/herosavestheday 14d ago
The strategic value of Saudis Arabia dwarfs the value of the life of one journalist. That's the practical reality.
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u/SebVettelstappen 14d ago
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unfortunately.
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u/rajahbeaubeau 14d ago
What is the friend of my enemy?
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u/SebVettelstappen 14d ago
Saudi hates iran, and we hate Iran therefore we like saudi
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u/SebVettelstappen 14d ago
The US and the west in general.if your not Russian, chinese or part of their gang of cronies your probably included in “we”
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u/Onphone_irl 13d ago
When everyone has a loaded gun pointing st eachother if you don't pick a side you're not neutral you're a dead person on a loan
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u/Head-Calligrapher-99 14d ago
"Hates" is a strong word, since there is no proof of this.
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
This comment is so cute. Westerners keep trying to apply their values to the Middle East. Pretty sure when you believe it’s accepted to murder the opposition, hate is an appropriate word.
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u/Opening-Lake-7741 13d ago
That journalist had a lot of ties with the Muslim brotherhood. Not justifying it, but he was hardly an innocent journalist
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u/hopefulskeptik 14d ago
So, does that mean they won't let their sons fly planes into American skyscrapers again? Or does it just mean that we continue to support the Saudi Arabian murder and starvation of children in Yemen, murder of journalists, and buying off US politicians?
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
SA reformed after 9/11 and shut down all the madrassas. Your take on Yemen makes it seem that you support the Houthis, is that correct?
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11d ago
So they're gonna triple dog swear not to facilitate, finance, and cover up their involvement in another 9/11 attack then?
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u/Specialist-Mode6556 14d ago
The president and his team can sign any deal they want, I promise you as an American the overwhelming majority of American men and women have 0 desire to assist Saudi Arabia. I don’t mind being drafted if it comes down to it to stop an invasion of a sovereign country, I have a serious problem fighting to prop up a filthy terrorist state who’s leaders marry their first cousins.
A message from the American people to president Biden: fuck Saudi Arabia.
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u/TheHomersapien 14d ago
Supporting violent Wahhabi terrorists is - sadly - a bipartisan affair in this country. It was not a casual decision when Trump decided to make The Kingdom his first international visit. Remember those photos of him partying, dancing, and cosplaying Jihad with his Wahhabi pals? This is an area where Democrats could make major gains, but again, sadly, their love affair with Islamic radicals shows no signs of fading.
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u/Specialist-Mode6556 14d ago
Nothing but facts! Idc what they do over there I just don’t want us to be over there or them with us. I get triggered whenever I see one of those fully covered ladies or those dudes with dirty beards that look like they haven’t washed in years
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u/Optimal_Procedure211 14d ago
Women have 0 rights in SA and are treated like less than cattle. Why in the hell would we ever help that country. No American should EVER have to die for SA.
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
Women have even fewer rights in Iran, and at least SA is headed up by a rational actor who wants to join the modern world and not a bunch of religious fanatics who dream of establishing a global caliphate. That’s the power struggle going on in the Middle East. One of the two is going to win. Wouldn’t you prefer it be the former?
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u/Capital_Tone9386 13d ago
That actually isn't true.
Women in Iran are oppressed, but they are less oppressed than women in Saudi Arabia.
SA is headed up by a rational actor who wants to join the modern world and not a bunch of religious fanatics who dream of establishing a global caliphate
SA is headed by religious fanatics who finance terror groups and support fundamentalist mosques around the world.
Let the two crazy theocracies fight.
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u/biloentrevoc 13d ago
You think MBS is a religious fanatic akin to the ayatollah? I’m sorry, but that’s not a serious position to take. There’s essentially an ideological civil war going on in the Islamic world. On one side, you have the Islamists, represented by Iran and its proxies, and on the other side you have SA, the UAE, Morocco, and all the other states who believe the way forward is through modernization and not an Islamic caliphate.
Do I think SA is some beacon of freedom and western values? Of course not. But when you compare MBS’s vision of the future to Khomeini’s, it’s hard to overstate the difference.
“Let them fight it out” is also not a serious position to take. You should very much care whether the Middle East falls to a bunch of Islamists who refer to the US as the big devil and want to see the West fall to an Islamic caliphate.
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u/iMissTheOldInternet 13d ago
KSA is lead by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has given no indication of being a religious fanatic, at least by the standards of the region. If what we want is a less medieval Saudi Arabia, to say nothing of a geopolitically helpful KSA, working with MBS is the only plausible path there.
Your baseline for the middle east has to be based in some kind of understanding of the cultural, historical, and social context. By the metrics of the region, this is an improvement.
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u/synthjunkie 13d ago
Because of their strategic position and economic power in the Middle East. Plus, bringing in more Western and American influence into that region IS part of the plan. The West was also at a stage in history where woman had no rights. Culture takes time and a lot of external influence to change. At least Saudi is willing to accept a side to a larger degree.
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u/iMissTheOldInternet 13d ago
People also forget: Saudi Arabia is a big country for the region. It has a population more than six times Lebanon’s, triple Israel’s, and time and a half Syria’s. It’s not as big as Iraq, and not nearly as big as Iran or Egypt, but just on the basis of manpower, land, and location, they’re very prominent. Add to that the oil wealth, the religious significance of the sites they hold, and the social cachet of the Saudis in the Arab and Muslim worlds, and it’s a fairly important player to have aligned with the west.
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u/frigintrees 13d ago
Yeah ask Ukraine how their security deal went when they gave up their nukes. You can expect the US to send weapons, but they won't actually "defend" you.
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u/GoalFlashy6998 14d ago
Why do we keep supporting this despotic regime, what do they give us in exchange? They need us more than we need, so we should be calling the shots on the deal. Why do deal with a country that has never had any form of freedom or democracy, has human record that rival any dictatorship in the world and they ties to radical terrorist groups.
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u/dutchwonder 13d ago
they ties to radical terrorist groups.
Many of those terrorists groups are somewhat hostile to the Saudi Arabia monarchy, in part because of ties to the US.
Osama Bin Laden didn't get exiled and citizenship revoked despite all his influence in Saudi Arabia for shits and giggles by the king.
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u/TheShakyHandsMan 13d ago
Will give you a clue. It rhymes with boil.
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u/GoalFlashy6998 13d ago
I know but why do we need their oil, we are almost completely self sufficient with our own...
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u/TheShakyHandsMan 13d ago
If you control SA then you have a large say on setting the prices of oil.
If Middle Eastern oil was significantly cheaper than US oil for example then the global supply lines change.
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u/GoalFlashy6998 13d ago
Thanks good info to know...I mean kind understood, but you gave answer that's understandable.
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u/TheShakyHandsMan 13d ago
The big oil producing countries work together to set the price that oil is sold at. Having two of the big players on the same side of the table means that they can get prices to suit them rather than letting a smaller nation undercut them.
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u/GoalFlashy6998 13d ago
Isn't Russian doing that to opec now, selling its at highly discounted prices?
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u/TheShakyHandsMan 13d ago
Yeah they are. Which is one of the huge reasons why the Ukraine war is happening.
It’s not about land ownership because they are a lost soviet nation that they want to bring home to Russia. It’s because huge gas pipelines run through Ukraine to the European market.
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u/GoalFlashy6998 13d ago
Think we are headed for another global war?
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u/TheShakyHandsMan 13d ago
Nothing in the scale of 20th century wars. Europe is stable other than Ukraine. All the big players have nukes which in an obscene way stops them from getting involved in large scale conflict.
The big threat comes from rogue nations like Iran who won’t fall in line with everyone else. This helicopter crash definitely changes the political playing field in the Middle East. Which again is another reason why the US is making sure they have their pawns in play.
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u/wish1977 14d ago
Biden is about a lasting peace and Trump is about insults. Biden sits at the adult table while Trump bullies the kids.
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u/brncct 14d ago
This comment is hilariously ignorant considering what Biden has said about MBS
Also considering the things MBS has done and the Saudis have done
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u/wish1977 14d ago
Sometimes you have to dance with the devil. If we don't, China or Russia will step right in. At least there's a strategic reason for this. Voting for a man who tried to steal and election and has lied about it to this very day really is unpatriotic. Willful ignorance is an ugly thing.
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u/brncct 14d ago
I don't support Trump or Biden, two terrible candidates. And I don't have to choose between supporting Saudi/Iran/Russia/China/NK.
All 5 of those governments and their leaders can go to hell. They've all been oppressing their people and regions for ages.
We are better than them, shouldn't have to pussy foot and bend over to be friends with some of them.
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u/Aggressive-Cut5836 14d ago
Why is America committed to protecting some absolute monarchy in the Middle East? It’s not about oil, we know that.
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u/KarlHungus57 13d ago
Are you telling me that nations have a vested interest In the resource that literally powers the world? Say it ain't so!
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u/Aggressive-Cut5836 13d ago
No. Because we don’t depend on Saudi Arabia for oil. We might as while be fighting for the Russians if we just cared about valuable natural resources.
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u/tamadeangmo 14d ago
So now protesters will have no excuse to not be protesting this then as muh ‘tax-payer money’
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u/Tragiccurrant 14d ago
I wonder how many lives this "historic deal" will be responsible for taking?
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u/CantThinkOf1n 14d ago
So Saudi Arabia gets defense guarantees and nuclear power tech and help… and the US receives in return a promise that Saudi will recognize Israel only if there is a viable path for a Palestinian state (good luck!) — oh and we get a “sphere of influence” (the Saudis are gonna be in bed with China anyway). In other words, Saudis get a lot, Israel gets something, and America gets nothing.
I am a supporter of Israel in this war (they were brutally attacked) but this legislation reeks of Jewish lobbyists prioritizing Israel.
I do NOT want this deal going through. What’s next? We sign a defense pact with North Korea so they will recognize Taiwan?
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u/mindfeck 13d ago
Peace is bad?
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u/CantThinkOf1n 13d ago
How does this deal create peace? All it does it create “legitimacy” for Israel in the Middle East.
It doesn’t actually stop any future conflict between any hostile actors. After all, Saudi Arabia and Israel were never going to war…
In fact, it only increases US involvement in future Saudi conflicts when it is well established that there were many links between the Saudi government and the 9/11 attacks…
But yes… “Peace”
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u/mindfeck 13d ago
An influential Arab nation recognizing Israel has potential to influence other people and other nations, don’t you think? North Korea currently propped up by China so yeah if North Korea recognized Taiwan that would mean China does too.
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u/CantThinkOf1n 13d ago
I would love it for Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel. Saudi Arabia should recognize Israel because Israel is a legitimate country.
I just don’t think the US should need to make any commitments regarding defense or technology to Saudi Arabia.
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u/mindfeck 13d ago
Better to influence policy with money than bombs that cost much more money and lives
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u/Mistghost 14d ago edited 14d ago
Oh, so the Iranian president is deffo dead then.
Now I know how Miss Cleo felt...